Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill (Fourth sitting)

Lord Sharma Excerpts

Thursday 14th February 2019 Public Bill Committees

[Caroline Nokes]

Q From the conversations that you have had to date with officials, MEPs and so on, you believe it to be an absolute imperative that it is in primary legislation and not something that is left to the secondary rules that have to date established the 3 million EU citizens’ rights here.

Jeremy Morgan: It would make it an awful lot easier for them because they could say there is at least a law. The problem then, of course, is that the law can be changed, but it still would look an awful lot better. They know who Henry VIII was as well and they have seen the discussion. EU officials and politicians are pretty tuned in to what goes on in this country. They have seen the discussion and it worries them.

Kalba Meadows: May I add briefly that when I had this conversation with senior politicians and officials in France, they were not at all impressed? They did not accept that what is currently in place to cover settled status in the case of no deal was in fact offering sufficient guarantee.

[The Minister for Employment (Alok Sharma)]

Q Thank you for your submission. I know that you have also talked to my officials on some of the amending SIs. I have one question on pensioners’ uprating, which you brought up. What impact do you think it would have on UK nationals? Have you talked to people extensively about potentially losing their uprating?

Jeremy Morgan: It would be devastating.

Kalba Meadows: You took the words out of my mouth.

[Alok Sharma]

Q Are you saying that it would actually change people’s behaviour and as a result they might choose to move back to the UK?

Kalba Meadows: It would be devastating in that the UK pension, as Jeremy has said, is already very low, and it has been devalued by the depreciation in sterling. Many people are in the position of what you would call only just managing.

[Alok Sharma]

Q Answer the direct question. Do you think it would change people’s behaviour? Would they decide as a result of that to move back to the UK?

Kalba Meadows: It is not even as simple as that. For many people, moving back to the UK is barely an option. Most people do not have links in the UK. They do not have housing in the UK. They have housing where they are. Their lives are where they are.

[Alok Sharma]

Q So it would not change behaviour.

Kalba Meadows: It may well change behaviour in that people would have no choice. But it is a very difficult thing to even contemplate.

[Kate Green]

Q Very difficult to do what?

Kalba Meadows: To move back to the UK.