Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the United Nations Commission of Inquiry report published on 16 September, which found that Israel has been committing genocide in Gaza against Palestinians, and what action they are taking in response.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, the Government’s long-standing position remains that any formal determination as to whether genocide has occurred should be made following a judgment by a competent national or international court. However, officials are carefully considering this report, and it will be taken into account in the regular assessments made by the Government of the compliance with international law by Israel in Gaza. We have been extremely clear that what is happening in Gaza is appalling. We continue to call on Israel to change course immediately by halting its ground offensive and letting a surge of humanitarian aid in without delay.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for her Answer and the indication that the Government are carefully considering the report from the United Nations which was published earlier this week. In that light, can my noble friend the Minister outline what steps the Government have taken and will take pursuant to Article 1 of the 1948 genocide convention and in compliance with the binding provisional measures ordered by the International Court of Justice on 26 January 2024 and 24 May 2024 to ensure that the slaughter of people and devastation of communities in Gaza are stopped?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We respect and will always continue to adhere to the convention that the noble Baroness refers to, but it will remain the Government’s position—I genuinely think that this is right—that we do not ascribe genocide; it is for a competent court to do that. That is the right way to tackle these issues. By calling this genocide, we do not save a single life, feed a single child or restore medical services to a single community. It is important—it really matters—that the attribution of genocide is made by a competent court. That will remain this Government’s position, and it has been the very long-standing position of the United Kingdom Government.
Lord Austin of Dudley (Non-Afl)
My Lords, is it not incredible that, when the Government arrived at the conclusion the week before last that this was not a genocide, that was ignored by Parliament and buried by the BBC, but when the United Nations arrives at the opposite conclusion, we have debates in Parliament and wall-to-wall obsessive coverage on the BBC? People need to understand that if Parliament and the BBC continually tell the British people that Israel is a uniquely terrible place, committing uniquely awful crimes—by the way, I share the concern about the humanitarian position in Gaza—that obsessive coverage drives antisemitism in Britain. It drives hostility towards people who are identified with Israel, which is the vast majority of the Jewish community. That is why you had 70,000 Jewish people protesting outside the BBC and Parliament a week last Sunday, which ought to be a matter of profound shame to Parliament and our national broadcaster.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As I have said, it is not for any politician or indeed the Government to determine whether or not genocide has been happening. It is for a competent court, and we will respect the decision of any competent court. Putting that to one side, it is absolutely right that we in this Chamber, others in positions of leadership or people in the community are able to say that what they see happening in Gaza is a thing of horror and shame that should stop immediately.
Lord Pannick (CB)
Will the Minister confirm that the commission of inquiry actually found that there were reasonable grounds for alleging genocide in Gaza, not that there is genocide in Gaza? Does she agree that that is not a robust legal test?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The legal test must be heard by a court. I understand that this report can be considered by the ICJ as part of its deliberations, and to that extent I think it is helpful. Whether or not you agree with every word of the report and with its findings, or however you view the wording of that report, it is absolutely clear—and you cannot read it without being horrified—that what is happening in Gaza is horrific and it should stop. It can be stopped, and the fact that it is not being stopped is a political decision by the Government of Israel. To that extent, I think we can all read it and come to a shared conclusion that what is needed is negotiation—and peace.
Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms and Chief Whip (Lord Kennedy of Southwark) (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, we will hear from the Conservative Benches next and then the Liberal Democrat Benches.
Baroness Helic (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her further explanation and updating of what she said yesterday about how it is not for politicians to determine whether there is a genocide or not—I fully agree with that principle. However, I am slightly confused, because only two weeks ago the Foreign Secretary wrote a letter to the International Development Committee and said that the Government have concluded that Israel is acting without intent to commit genocide. Surely, if the Foreign Secretary could assert that there was no genocide, he was making a political determination. On what basis has that conclusion been reached, and why is it acceptable to rule out genocide but not to affirm it?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Baroness needs to read the letter in full. The letter was in response to an inquiry by the IDC, I think, on the issue of F35s. It is not for this Government to determine genocide. We have never determined genocide. There is one occasion when we have determined genocide, and that was the Holocaust, and that happened before there was a court that had the competency to do so. We have never done it since. It is right that we do not, and I think it would be a very dangerous move for national Governments, politicians or campaign groups to be able to decide what constitutes genocide and what does not. Determining genocide is not the main question that ought to be concerning us about what is happening in Gaza. What is happening in Gaza is costing the lives of thousands of people. There is famine. It is preventable. What should be at the forefront of all of our minds is not arguing about the determination and use of one word. It is about getting those children fed and getting the medical attention to those who desperately need it.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, I respectfully say to the Minister that the noble Baroness, Lady Helic, and I have read that letter in full. The Minister refers to preventable famine in Gaza. Starvation as an act of war is expressly prohibited by the additional protocols to the Geneva conventions. As the Minister just said, this is now happening. This is a war crime. This is the first conflict since those additional protocols to the Geneva conventions were accepted by the United Kingdom when we have not taken action against those responsible for carrying that out. Why?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
There are processes under way at the ICJ and the ICC. Although we do not take it upon ourselves to attribute genocide, that does not mean that we do not consider other breaches of international humanitarian law. We have taken a number of steps that we have discussed frequently in this Chamber in response to that around arms export licences and sanctions. We continue to use any levers that we have, including those that may arise next week at the United Nations General Assembly, in response to our grave concerns.
Lord Grocott (Lab)
My Lords, it is time for this side. The Front Benches do not come first.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, we can get both noble Lords in, whichever goes first.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, to nobody’s surprise, it has been reported that the Government are going to proceed with recognition of the state of Palestine, probably this weekend. While I accept that it was not their intention, this decision has been warmly welcomed by Hamas and its supporters, who regularly wave their flags on the streets near this place. Can the Minister tell the House why, when they originally announced this dramatic change of policy, they imposed lots of impossible-to-meet conditions on the State of Israel but none on Hamas, not even the release of the dozens of hostages still languishing in the dungeons of Gaza?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
If the Government of Israel do not wish the United Kingdom Government to do what they said they would do about six weeks ago—we can all read a calendar, and we know what is happening next week—it is clear what they need to do. It is up to the Government of Israel to make their decision.
Lord Grocott (Lab)
My Lords, the exchanges here, as is often the case, really do not reflect the horror of what we see on our television screens night after night after night, which constitutes what is happening in Gaza. We have become immune. It is almost routine these days to see hospitals bombed, schools attacked, trade envoys or humanitarian envoys attacked, and children killed by the thousand. When all these things are going on in front of our eyes and are unchallengeable, to argue about precise definitions of genocide somehow misses the central point, especially when children are now being shot as they queue for food. That has plumbed a depth we have never seen before. Surely, we can acknowledge that whether there is genocide or not, there is no argument whatever that multiple severe war crimes have repeatedly been committed by the Israelis in the Gaza territory.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Like my noble friend, I worry about our immunity to this and that we lose our capacity for compassion and to feel the horror of what is happening. I note the concern that we see on the streets, which is sometimes expressed in ways that we do not agree with and would not wish to see further. The worst thing about what is happening is that it is so preventable. The attacks on hospitals and civilians, including children, and the danger that these put the hostages in, could and should be stopped. We are hopeful that by continuing to make the statements that we make and to exert diplomatic pressure on the Government of Israel and talk to them—Israel should be a close ally and friend; historically it has been so close to people in this country, which makes it all the more saddening to see what is happening—very soon we can see an end to this needless violence.