Lord Keen of Elie (Con)
My Lords, the Chief Inspector of Prisons has just delivered a devastating report on conditions at His Majesty’s Prison Long Lartin and His Majesty’s Prison Manchester. At HMP Manchester, almost 40% of prisoners have failed standard drug tests. The Chief Inspector of Prisons has reported that criminal gangs now, in effect, control the airspace above this high-security prison using drones. A number of years ago, the use of drones was emerging, and they could be controlled by physical defences such as nets and blocked windows. Unfortunately, even these basic defences were neglected at HMP Manchester. However, there have been recent and rapid developments in drone technology. First-person viewing drones, GPS-controlled drones and others are all capable of delivering not only drugs but weapons and even explosives. Will the Minister address not only the existing security failures at HMP Manchester but the possible introduction of electronic countermeasures at high-security prisons such as HMP Manchester?
The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)
The noble and learned Lord is completely right that drones pose a major and serious threat to all our prisons. I have been visiting Manchester prison for over 20 years, and I went there just before Christmas, in the light of the problems that it has. I saw for myself the issues that staff are dealing with, with 49% of the prisoners arriving in the prison being addicted to drugs. I cannot share the counter-drone tactics as that would play into the hands of sophisticated and serious organised criminals. I can assure the noble and learned Lord that we are currently getting on with a number of fixes, but the biggest fix is ensuring there is no market for drugs and weapons in the first place, and that people in prison are there to get on with their sentence, get educated and do purposeful activity, so that when they are out, they stay out.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
Will the Minister confirm the magnitude of the challenge that he has inherited? Is it not the case that, during the period of the previous Government, there was an increase in drug finds of 44%? In the year until March last year, there was an increase in weapon finds of 24%. The Minister now faces a challenge because of the fact that, over the past 14 years, very little has been done to confront the challenge.
Lord Timpson (Lab)
The noble Lord is completely right that the prisons I am visiting now are very different from the prisons I visited 15 or 20 years ago. The buildings are often in decrepit states of repair. We have a lot of new staff who are still learning the skills of being a prison officer and we have an awful lot more to do to ensure that people, when they are in prison, spend their days purposefully, not just sitting in their cells.
Lord Rooker (Lab)
Can I ask my noble friend about Long Lartin? I am going beyond the Question, but is the safety of the inmates as such today that they are able to exercise in every exercise yard? Long Lartin’s proximity to the countryside and the geography around it allow potential problems from the outside against the inmates. I should like an assurance that that matter has been dealt with since I visited some years ago.
Lord Timpson (Lab)
Like the noble Lord, I visited some years ago, so I do not have an exact picture in my mind of the layout of the exercise yards. I can assure him that every male closed prison now has X-ray scanners. In 2003, there were over 1,000 drone sightings. They were up 770% between 2019 and 2023. We have a serious problem but if I know any more details, I will let him know.
Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the focus for prisoners should be on not taking drugs when they come out of prison? Does he agree that there is still a gap in making sure that prisoners know what will be done to help them to stop taking drugs on their release and that, if there was greater co-operation in that regard, we might not have quite as big a problem with drones as we have today?
Lord Timpson (Lab)
The noble Lord is completely right. There are far too many people in prison who arrive addicted and stay addicted. They need an incentive and support not to take drugs. That is why I am a big fan of substance-free living wings and engaging with probation early so that, when people are released, we have a seamless link whereby probation picks up with all the drug workers on release.
Baroness Hamwee (LD)
My Lords, a major component of security regarding prisons must be stable, expert and sufficient staffing. The Minister referred to staff. When it give evidence to our Justice and Home Affairs Committee, the Prison Officers’ Association referred to the recruitment process as being simply not fit for purpose and said that it was not surprising that corrupt and underqualified officers were being recruited—referring in particular to online interviews. Can the Minister give the House any news about improving the recruitment process and the number of staff?
Lord Timpson (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness for the question. Having run a business for many years and tried to find fantastic superstars to work with, I am well aware that we always want to find the best colleagues to work in our prisons. I am very engaged with the POA team as well. Noble Lords may be interested to know that we are currently at 99.5% staffing levels. That does not mean that everybody is trained and in the right place, but MoJ colleagues have made good progress on that. As regards the way recruitment works in our prisons, professionally trained assessors always take part in the interviews.
Lord Hogan-Howe (CB)
My Lords, our prisons are very good at keeping people in; I am afraid they are not as good at keeping things out. There are two symptoms of that: the large number of mobile phones and, as has been said already, the amount of drugs in prisons. Some 40% of the people who enter have a drug problem, but 60% of those who leave have one; they get their problem in prison. Drones are clearly an issue, but I am afraid that corruption is a bigger one. One of the biggest challenges is, I am afraid, that nobody is really concentrating on this issue in terms of investigation: the NCA is too diffuse, local forces are too busy, and the Prison Service has no investigative capacity. Would the Minister be interested in attending a short meeting on two distinct proposals to see how they might be able to do something about this? There would be some cost, but I promise him not too much.
Lord Timpson (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for the question; I would be delighted to meet up and to learn more. The problem we have with serious organised crime in our prisons is that these people are in there to make money. They do that by selling phones and drugs, which creates debt and violence, so it is essential that we tackle this. We are giving more focus to our dedicated serious and organised crime unit and we are working across government, but the noble Lord is right that this is vital.
Lord Woodley (Lab)
My Lords, yesterday the Justice and Home Affairs Committee heard from the chair of the Prison Officers’ Association that it was only a matter of time before arms were sent into prison via drones. There were even concerns that, with drones now being able to carry 75 kilograms, they could be used to facilitate some form of escape. Can the Minister please explain what anti-drone technologies we have in place, and will they be whizzed out across the rest of the empire?
Lord Timpson (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for the question. I am afraid that, due to security reasons, I cannot go into any details on the measures that we have and that we will have. However, I can assure him that we will spend £520 million on maintenance over the next two years, because we have inherited prisons in such a bad state. A lot of that money will be spent on repairing nets, grilles and windows.
Baroness Sugg (Con)
My Lords, can the Minister update the House on any improvements since the introduction in January 2024 of the no-fly zones around certain prisons? Have they been a success, and how can we boost their effectiveness?
Lord Timpson (Lab)
The no-fly zones have been a great success and have been an important part of the work we are doing, but there is still further work we need to do. I reiterate that the demand is just as big a problem as the supply.
Lord Carter of Haslemere (CB)
My Lords, drugs getting into prisons, whether by drones or otherwise, give rise to self-inflicted deaths. Coroners issued 12 prevention of future deaths reports to the Ministry of Justice in 2024, relating precisely to this issue of the link between drugs and self-inflicted deaths. Of course, the Government have a legal duty of care towards prisoners and a legal duty to respond to these prevention of future deaths reports, which I do not think has happened. Can the Minister assure us that this will be looked at and that the reports’ recommendations will be implemented?
Lord Timpson (Lab)
The noble Lord is right that any death in custody is a death too many. One of the most difficult jobs I have, when I read my emails every morning, is when I get notified that we have had a death in custody. That is someone who was in our care, and I take that very seriously.