(2 weeks, 2 days ago)
Lords ChamberRead Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Fox of Buckley
To ask His Majesty’s Government, following the downgrading of data gathered from the 2021 Census question on gender identity, what steps they are taking to ensure accurate and consistent data on sex and gender are collected to ensure robust official data.
The Minister of State, Department for Education (Baroness Smith of Malvern) (Lab)
My Lords, the Government value the collection of high quality and robust data on this topic. The Government Statistical Service will publish a work plan for updated, harmonised standards and guidance on sex and gender in December this year. This will align with the Office for National Statistics regulation guidance on collecting and reporting data about sex and gender identity, which was published in February.
Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)
I thank the Minister for that reply. In the meantime, can she look closely at one worrying consequence? NHS data standards were updated to reflect those very same compromised gender identity questions used in the census. Genspect UK research shows that a significant number of GPs also use them, which in theory means that every time someone registers with a new doctor, patients could informally change the sex registered on their health records. Does the Minister agree that this is concerning because biological sex influences everything from diagnosis to treatment? Therefore, the recording of accurate sex data in NHS records is essential for safe and appropriate healthcare.
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
The reason why it is so important that we allow the independent statistical services to develop the question appropriately is precisely that it will be used more widely in other public services. Of course it is important that that has the confidence of those responding to the question and of the services being provided. To that extent, therefore, I share the noble Baroness’s concern to ensure that that statistical collection is robust and appropriate and is informing services, including the NHS, in a way that users need it to.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
I hope the Minister will acknowledge that—given the downgraded English figures, which gave the trans and non-binary population as 0.55%, and given that the figure we found for Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, USA and GB patients is 0.44%—we can conclude that the English census figures are not a million miles out and that the actual number of people in question is tiny in proportion to the amount of time we spend talking about them. Can we not, instead, use these figures to help design services appropriately for them, and move on?
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
This is my first opportunity to answer a Question on this issue in this House, but I certainly take the noble Baroness’s point that it is important that we have accurate and respected statistics, but that we are also providing services to people on the basis of their needs, particularly for LGBT+ people, and that they are safe, included and protected from discrimination. That, along with protection of sex-based rights where necessary, is what this Government will focus on.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, the Minister may have noticed that in every questionnaire one comes across these days—applying for jobs and filling in a questionnaire online—the final question is always about sex, gender, identity, binary: there are umpteen choices. How can someone filling in the form know what they are supposed to be if they do not have a gender recognition certificate? What is the accurate answer? How does one get people whose first language is not English to understand, in particular, NHS forms, where the question is crucial?
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
I should point out that the most recent census was the first time this question was asked, and it is important that a range of questions is asked in the census, on a voluntary basis in this case. However, I also think it important that the questions are designed in an accessible way and that people understand the terms used in them. That is precisely why the Government Statistical Service will be undertaking the work I outlined in my initial Answer.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, is participating remotely.
Lord Shinkwin (Con) [V]
My Lords, one area where the data in the 2021 census is accurate is disability. I cannot help thinking that, if a fraction of the energy and resources devoted to identity politics had been given to disability access in the 30 years since the DDA was passed by your Lordships’ House, the world—[Inaudible.]
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
I think I can probably understand how the noble Lord was going to finish his question. I tend to agree with him, and I will be committed, alongside my other equality responsibilities to this House, to ensuring that we make progress on disability access as well.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
My Lords, having listened to the questions posed by noble Lords and the sensible responses from my noble friend the Minister, I think the Question is really about the need for accurate data on sex and gender identity, and finding the right way to get that data. A climate of distrust and defensiveness is unhelpful if our researchers are to advance our understanding in this area without fear of accusations of bias.
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
My noble friend is absolutely right. It is important that academics and researchers can do their work. It is important that government statistics are determined and regulated independently of government and political arguments. The work plan that will be set out in December is intended to ensure that this happens.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)
My Lords, as this Question is about the census, will the Minister encourage the Cabinet Office to do something about the lack of comparability, between England on the one hand and Scotland and Wales on the other, of many vital statistics of importance to the public, such as waiting times in the NHS? This was highlighted by the excellent independent review of the UK Statistics Authority by Professor Lievesley, and it would be nice to see progress in that area.
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
I am not sure that waiting times in the NHS are part of the census, but I take the noble Baroness’s point, nevertheless. Although, as I have emphasised, the development of statistical measures should be done independently of government, I am sure that co-ordination between the devolved Administrations, where appropriate, would be a good idea.
Lord Strasburger (LD)
My Lords, throughout the criminal justice system, sex registered at birth is the most important variable in the analysis of crime and offending. It underpins the planning of policing services, risk assessments and offender treatment programmes. But recent freedom of information requests reveal that most police forces in England and Wales no longer record sex registered at birth. Instead, they record the offender’s self-declared gender identity—astonishingly, even when the offence is rape. What are the Government doing to stop this corruption of the fundamental data used throughout the criminal justice system?
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
The noble Lord identifies why it is important that we have clarity about the measures being used in order to ensure that services are appropriate to people. That is the objective of the work plan that will be set out in December, which will have engagement around it, so that we can be clear about the measures and the definitions not just in the census but for the broad range of public authorities, including in the criminal justice system, that need to use them as well.
Baroness Ludford (LD)
The previous Government commissioned an independent review, led by Professor Alice Sullivan of University College London, a statistics expert, to look at problems exemplified by the census fiasco and set out good practice on how to collect data. This review by Professor Sullivan was due to report back in August. Will the Government publish the Sullivan review and their response?
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
The first part of the review has been received by the Government, who are currently considering it. I undertake to come back to this House with a response to that.
Lord Lucas (Con)
My Lords, do the Government have a working definition of gender and gender identity and, if so, could they share it with the House?
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
The noble Lord would be well advised to look at the Equality Act, for example. I have to say that this would be a better debate if we spent more time worrying about how we provide services and account for people’s needs, and less about how we catch our political opponents out.
Lord Markham (Con)
As a previous Health Minister, I know that there is a serious health reason to have a proper understanding of the answer to the question of when a woman is a woman and needs to have treatment based on her sex. Please: this is a serious question that deserves a serious answer.
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
I agree—a woman is an adult female, and her biological sex may well determine what services she needs from the NHS. That is why it is important that, in statistics that are used both in the census and more broadly by our public services, we have a consistent and an agreed approach to that. That is what I have been talking about up to this point. Frankly, I was taking this seriously, and I hope that others around the House will as well.