(1 year, 6 months ago)
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Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I must inform the House that amendments (a) and (b) to motion 6 have been selected, and I will call Wendy Chamberlain to move them at the end of the debate.
The Leader of the House of Commons (Penny Mordaunt)
I beg to move,
That—
(1) this House notes the First Report from the Committee on Standards, on New Code of Conduct and Guide to the Rules: promoting appropriate values, attitudes and behaviours in Parliament (HC 227), and approves the recommendations relating to appeals and the Procedural Protocol in paragraphs 141–143, 151, 153, 155–157, 166 and 169 of that Report.
(2) this House approves the Second Report from the Committee on Standards on the Code of Conduct: Procedural Protocol (HC 378), and the Procedural Protocol in respect of the Code of Conduct annexed to that Report, with immediate effect, subject to the following amendments to the Protocol:
(a) In paragraph 6, leave out from “under the Code” to end;
(b) In paragraph 7, leave out “and the rules relating to upholding the Code (the numbered paragraphs in the Code of Conduct)”;
(c) In paragraph 16, leave out “, under rule 10 of the Code”;
(d) In paragraph 18, leave out “rule 11” and insert “paragraph 17”;
(e) In paragraph 22, leave out “rules 1 or 16 in the Code” and insert “paragraph 18 of the Code, or the provision in paragraph 21 of the Code that ‘Failure to comply with a sanction imposed by a subpanel of the Independent Expert Panel shall be treated as a breach of the Code’”;
(f) Leave out paragraph 32 and insert, “Paragraph 20 of the Code provides that ‘The Commissioner may investigate a specific matter relating to a Member’s adherence to the rules of conduct under the Code. Members shall cooperate, at all stages, with any such investigation by or under the authority of the House, and with the Committee on Standards and the Independent Expert Panel in any subsequent consideration of a case. Members must not lobby members of the Committee on Standards or the Independent Expert Panel; the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards; or the staff of those bodies in a manner calculated or intended to influence their consideration of a breach or a sanction in an individual case.’”
(g) Leave out paragraph 62;
(h) In paragraph 83, leave out “rule 11” and insert “paragraph 17”;
(i) In paragraph 118, after “legal or medical adviser”, insert “; and/or d) a Member’s own staff”.
(j) Leave out paragraph 126 and insert, “Paragraph 20 of the Code provides that ‘The Commissioner may investigate a specific matter relating to a Member’s adherence to the rules of conduct under the Code. Members shall cooperate, at all stages, with any such investigation by or under the authority of the House, and with the Committee on Standards and the Independent Expert Panel in any subsequent consideration of a case. Members must not lobby members of the Committee on Standards or the Independent Expert Panel; the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards; or the staff of those bodies in a manner calculated or intended to influence their consideration of a breach or a sanction in an individual case.’”
(3) Paragraph 20 of the Code of Conduct for Members (HC (2017-19) 1882) be amended to read as follows: “The Commissioner may investigate a specific matter relating to a Member’s adherence to the rules of conduct under the Code. Members shall cooperate, at all stages, with any such investigation by or under the authority of the House, and with the Committee on Standards and the Independent Expert Panel in any subsequent consideration of a case. Members must not lobby members of the Committee on Standards or the Independent Expert Panel; the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards; or the staff of those bodies in a manner calculated or intended to influence their consideration of a breach or a sanction in an individual case.”
(4) the Committee on Standards shall have power to make any minor or purely administrative changes to the Procedural Protocol in respect of the Code of Conduct, including those necessary to reflect any future decisions of the House relating to the Code of Conduct and the Guide to the Rules relating to the Conduct of Members.
(5) Chapter 4 of the Guide to the Rules relating to the Conduct of Members (HC (2017-19) 1882) shall no longer have effect
(6) previous Resolutions of this House in relation to the conduct of Members shall be read and given effect in a way which is compatible with the Procedural Protocol in respect of the Code of Conduct.
Madam Deputy Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Motion 6 on Standing Orders etc. (Committee on Standards, Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, Independent Expert Panel).
Amendment (a).
Amendment (b).
Penny Mordaunt
The House is being asked to consider the creation of an appeals process for non-Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme cases to be heard by the Independent Expert Panel. The motion would introduce the formal appeals process that Sir Ernest Ryder recommended and proposes that the panel would hear appeals against the decisions and sanctions of the Committee on Standards. The motion also puts to the House the new procedural protocol, which would sit alongside the new appeals process.
I am grateful to the Committee on Standards for its work reviewing the code of conduct for Members and the overall operation of the standards system in the House of Commons. Since becoming Leader of the House, I have had some discussions with the Chair of the Committee, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), who I look forward to hearing from today. I assure him and the House that the Government have carefully considered his Committee’s recommendations, alongside the procedural protocol and covering report.
I am sure that the whole House agrees that Members of Parliament must uphold the highest standards in public life and that the procedures we have in place must be fair, robust and command the respect and confidence both of Members and the wider public. I believe that today’s motion takes a positive step in the right direction.
There are other issues that are not covered in the motions today, and I plan to seek consensus on a wider package and to come back to the House in due course, but it is good to make progress on the issues as we can.
Before coming to the substance of today’s motion, I wish to briefly cover some areas in relation to the wider proposed package of changes from the Committee on Standards that we are not debating today. Let me be clear: I am very conscious that there is further progress to be made and the House should have the opportunity to consider the additional recommendations proposed by the Committee. I reassure the House and the Committee that we are seeking to identify solutions that can command cross-party support on those outstanding issues.
Specifically, the Committee made recommendations on measures to improve the transparency and timeliness of ministerial declarations. The Government are clear in their views that the rules regulating Members’ interests and ministerial interests are necessarily distinct, reflecting the underlying constitutional principle of the separation of powers. There are differences between the role of an MP and that of a Minister and, reflecting that, the rules differ on what interests are permitted and how potential conflicts of interest are managed. There are clear rules regarding the registration of interests and the receipt of gifts in the ministerial code and Ministers should, and do, take their responsibilities very seriously. Nevertheless, I recognise the concerns of the Committee. Since being appointed Leader of the House, I have raised those concerns and have instructed officials to bring forward proposals for an improved system.
I can confirm to the House that revised guidance on ministerial transparency data will be published in the coming weeks. We will also publish it on gov.uk for the first time. The guidance has been updated to more closely reflect modern working practices and Ministers’ obligations under the ministerial code.
It is important that the Government conduct ourselves openly. I will continue to work with the Cabinet Office and across Government to ensure that we are fulfilling our obligations. In doing so, I keep very much in mind the challenge set for me by the Chair of the Committee on Standards: that a Member who attends an event such as the BAFTAs should report in a particular way, so a Minister who attends the same event should report in a similar way and their interests should be transparent to the public. I hope that the House and the Committee will support these changes; I will happily engage with the Committee should they not have the desired effect. [Interruption.] For the benefit of Hansard, the Chair of the Committee chuckled knowingly.
The House will be aware that an appeals process is already in place within some aspects of the parliamentary standards system. Those who are subject to investigation under the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme have the right of appeal to the Independent Expert Panel, which is chaired by the former High Court judge Sir Stephen Irwin. The ICGS and the IEP have been an essential part of achieving positive culture change in the House and demonstrating its rigorous judicial process, its transparency of operation and the right to appeal.
The Government have therefore welcomed Sir Ernest Ryder’s report and his timely review of the Commons standards system and its compatibility with the principles of fairness and natural justice. As we set out in a letter to the Committee on Standards, the Government supported the majority of the proposals, including the introduction of a formal appeals process. We note that the Committee has accepted all the recommendations, with a few minor modifications. I welcome the proposal that appeals be heard by an independent body with judicial expertise. We also welcome Sir Ernest’s consideration of the grounds for appeal and the acceptance that the Independent Expert Panel is the appropriate body to hear appeals.
We propose two main amendments to the procedural protocol. First, we propose to amend paragraph 118 to allow MPs to inform their own staff in the event that they are subject to investigation by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. Secondly, we propose to leave out paragraph 62 on Members recusing themselves if not present for all but a “small proportion” of evidence sessions. These amendments reflect the Government’s position, as set out in our response to the Committee; I hope that the House and the Committee will support them. The other proposed amendments are purely technical changes to ensure that the protocol works with the current version of the rules and guide.
I wish to speak briefly about amendments (a) and (b) in the name of the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) and others. The amendments stipulate that
“no Member shall be eligible to participate in any division on such a motion where it relates to their own conduct.”
That stipulation would apply both to conduct motions related to breaches of the code of conduct and to motions related to the ICGS. This is, of course, a matter for the House to consider. I note that the Committee on Standards chose not to pursue the issue in detail as part of the inquiry.
I am aware that the Chair of the Procedure Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), has raised the issue of Members being permitted to vote on their own suspension. My predecessor wrote in response to her that there would be benefit in the Committee’s looking into whether such changes are needed. If necessary, they could be put to the House for consideration. Hon. Members will be aware that there is a convention that Members should not participate in such votes. In our parliamentary democracy, conventions guide how we work in this place, and codification of these norms should be carefully considered; I would therefore welcome it if the matter were considered by the appropriate Committee. Subject to its approval, the Government would be happy to bring the matter back to the Floor of the House for approval in due course.
If there is no objection from the Chair of the Committee on Standards or from other hon. Members present, I would certainly be content to support these amendments.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I see no reason why we should not simply put what is already a convention into, as it were, the statutes of the House—the Standing Orders. I support the motion and, looking around the Chamber and seeing other members of the Committee who are present, I think that they will as well. I think it would save us all a bit of time if we just got on with it and agreed to the amendments.
Penny Mordaunt
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that helpful intervention.
Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
May I add my view, as Chair of the Procedure Committee? I feel that the amendments are absolutely fine, and we should be happy to see them passed tonight.
Penny Mordaunt
I thank my right hon. Friend for her support for the amendments. We are hopefully saving ourselves some time, and efficiency is always great to see. It is important to point out, however, that if Members did object and wanted the Committee to look at this, they could oppose the amendments, which are obviously subject, potentially, to a vote tonight.
We support the work being undertaken to introduce measures to empower the standards system in Parliament, and I am committed to continuing conversations both within Government and with parliamentary colleagues to continue to introduce improvements proposed by the Committee on a cross-party basis. I assure the House that my door is always open and I am always willing to discuss these matters with all Members. I hope that the House will approve the proposed changes, and I commend them to the House.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
I thank the Leader of the House for tabling the motions. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and his Committee for all the hard work that they have put into their inquiries and reports on standards over many months. I really would have liked to see all that work recognised in the motion today. After months of calling on the Leader of the House and her predecessors to implement the Standards Committee’s full recommendations, I am sure that the right hon. Lady will have imagined my initial excitement when I heard the words “Members’ code of conduct” during her recent business statement, but sadly that turned to some disappointment when I found that it did not include all the Committee’s work to strengthen standards in Parliament. I understand what the right hon. Lady has said, but I will come back to that shortly.
Let me now turn to the substance of our debate: the appeals process. Let me first place on the record my thanks and welcome for the work that Sir Ernest Ryder has done on the House’s current system for the Standards Committee. It has been helpful to have a well-respected external figure investigating whether or not our existing standards needed to be improved or strengthened. I know that the Committee made good use of Sir Ernest’s extensive experience when considering the important issues of fairness, natural justice and the right of appeal, and I note that he gave thoughtful and considered support to our standards system overall. I picked out the issues of fairness, natural justice and the right of appeal because I seem to remember those words being used in a debate on 3 or 4 November 2021 which, I am afraid, did not show the House in a good light. That is partly why we are here today.
Sir Ernest proposed that there should be a right of appeal against both the findings of the Standards Committee and any sanctions that it imposed or recommended. It seems wholly sensible that such an appeal should be to an independent body with judicial expertise, and that leads us inevitably to the Independent Expert Panel. I am assured that its chair, the right hon. Sir Stephen Irwin, has said that the panel should be able to take on this role, and that it should be able to manage the workload without expanding the current panel size of eight. I am grateful to him for that confirmation. I assure the Leader of the House that she has my support on the motions, and that they will be supported by the Opposition.
However, let me turn to the slightly wider but related issue of standards in general and, in particular, standards and ethics in parliamentary and governmental life. It was the well-respected former Cabinet Secretary Lord O’Donnell who said recently, “It’s always best to look at reasons why your predecessor fell and fix that.” Unfortunately, however—and I say this with disappointment and sadness, because it affects all of us in this place—everything we have heard from the current Prime Minister, not just during her leadership campaign but in the context of her lack of action since taking office, suggests so far that we are in for more of the same when it comes to trashing standards. I wanted to believe that that was not so, but the Prime Minister even refused to say that she would appoint an independent ethics adviser after the previous two had resigned—admittedly, under the previous Prime Minister—in despair.
I am glad that the Leader of the House has said that the Government are committed to appointing one, but I want to see some urgency. It would be reassuring for the House and for the country if the Prime Minister could commit to appointing that much-needed ethics advisor.
On parliamentary standards specifically, there should have been a lot more in the motion—namely, the rest of the recommendations, in my view. I thank the Leader of the House for her update, and she has been extremely co-operative with me and my office on this, but again we need some urgency to repair the damage that has been done by some—not all—on the Government side to the public’s view of how we conduct ourselves in this place and the surrounding neighbourhood.
In response to my questioning on this at business questions last Thursday, the Leader of the House said:
“It is not that we are not doing them”.—[Official Report, 13 October 2022; Vol. 720, c. 260.]
I absolutely believe her, but does this mean that the Government will bring forward a motion to cover all the Standards Committee’s recommendations? I get that sense from what she has said, and I would like to know that that is the general direction of travel, but if not, why not? Can she tell us which ones the Government like and which ones they do not? I would be grateful if she could give us a much more specific timeframe for when they will be brought forward.
I welcome the assurances that the Leader of the House has given, but when it comes to parliamentary standards and the Tories, I think she probably understands why the public are feeling a lack of trust. Unfortunately, it is the party that refused to fix a loophole that let one Member off the hook for a particular misdemeanour. It is the party that was prepared to change the rules retrospectively seemingly to support cash for access but not to stop sexual harassment.
I do not kid myself that there was ever a golden age when the public saw us all as completely trustworthy and the holders of the highest standards, even though I believe that most of us in this House absolutely are. However, the public need to—and at times have been able to—trust the system of standards enforcement and sanctions around our general principles. As my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda once told me, there have been rules on how MPs should behave honourably since 1695. Since that time, the rules have only ever gone in one direction, which is to be strengthened—that is, until some Conservative Members unfortunately sought to drag them backwards during the Owen Patterson affair, which showed all too clearly that we have, in Conservative Members, some people who seem to be willing to change the rules retrospectively if they or their mates get caught.
Until we see a motion on the Order Paper covering all the Standards Committee’s recommendations—or some form of them—we can only assume or guess that the Government have apprehensions about bringing them forward. Banning MPs from doing paid consultancy work and increasing the transparency of Members’ interests are measures that Labour has long been calling for, and I believe that there is cross-party support for them. I have referred to the Owen Paterson affair with good reason, because that was the place where some of those concerns grew really strong.
We will of course support the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain). It seems a great pity that they needed to be put into writing, but evidently they did—
Thangam Debbonaire
I see that the hon. Member is nodding. I support the amendment and the motions, but I want to put on the record that if we were in government and I were at the other Dispatch Box, I would want to enact the Standards Committee’s recommendations as soon as possible.
In that vein, can I urge the Leader of the House to bring forward a further motion to do the work that she has referred to? She will find that she has support from this side for any co-operative and collaborative work that she wishes to do, and even for any critical or difficult work. We stand ready to work with her. This is not a matter that should be party political, although I have made some party political points because unfortunately it has been shown to be so in the past year. I will support the motions and the amendments, and I commend the report and the inquiries of the Standards Committee to all right hon. and hon. Members.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
I rise today to speak in favour of the two amendments on the Order Paper in my name. I will confine my comments to those amendment, but first I want to echo the expressions of thanks to the Standards Committee and its Chair, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), for their work. I also offer my thanks to the right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), the Chair of the Procedure Committee, who met me earlier this year in relation to this issue. I am grateful to her and her Clerks for giving me their time.
As has been highlighted by both the Leader of the House and the shadow Leader of the House, my amendments make a straightforward change to what happens when the House votes on a motion to sanction a Member for their conduct. At the moment, a Member in that situation can vote on their own censure. Some of us might think that would never actually happen after an independent investigation has found a Member not only responsible for breaking the code of conduct but responsible for such an egregious breach that their privileges as a Member of this place should be curtailed as a result. We would like to think that there would be a sober reflection and making of amends in that situation but, sadly, we know that is not always the case.
It is less than a year since the censure of the former Member for North Shropshire. In those two votes, the former Member voted against his own suspension. As a result, I secured a Standing Order No. 24 emergency debate on standards, as an opportunity for the House to begin repairing the potential damage that affects us all in this place when such things happen.
It might be the former police officer in me—I have mentioned being a former police officer a few times today, as I spoke in the debate on the Public Order Bill—but it infuriates me that a Member can vote on their own suspension. It puzzles me, too. Surely, with the million rules and conventions in this place about what we can and cannot do, it should not have been allowed.
I had a look and spoke to the Clerks, who are much appreciated by all of us as a fount of knowledge. I found that, yes, there is a convention that, although Members can speak at the start of a debate on their conduct, the expectation is that they should subsequently withdraw, with the implication being that they should not return for the vote. There is a further convention that a Member can lodge a motion objecting to another Member’s participation in a vote in which they have a financial interest in the outcome, but I think you would agree, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this is cumbersome and basically impossible with the rate of business and the number of MPs that we now have in this House.
Importantly, they are both currently conventions, not rules. Simply put, conventions last only as long as people choose to adhere to them. When people do not, it reflects on all of us. The Conservative party potentially had the most mud stuck to them as a result of what happened last year, but this is House business and it reflects on all of us to ensure that we uphold standards in this place.
My two amendments amend the Standing Orders to make these two conventions a rule. Members will not be able to vote on sanctions relating to proven breaches of the code of conduct by themselves. It is worth noting that the vast majority of cases considered by the Standards Commissioner are either not upheld or are rectified without further action, but there are always MPs under investigation, and I suspect there always will be. Although it has nothing to do with those individuals, it is important that we as a House are seen to be acting accordingly.
Where cases are more serious and there is a report to the Standards Committee, and where all the appropriate procedures, including those set down in the motion itself, have been followed and the recommendations reach the Floor of the House, we must ensure that due process is done and, most importantly, seen to be done.
Ironically, it was during Parliament Week last year that we saw the situation that the shadow Leader of the House mentioned, and it is almost Parliament Week again. When I talk to my constituents, they ask me about working here, fairness and transparency, and I genuinely think this is the best job I have ever had. It is an enormous privilege, and I think the vast majority of Members agree and want to act accordingly.
I want to be able to tell my constituents, and I feel very encouraged that I will be able to do so, that we have taken a long, good look at ourselves and that the vast majority of us who want to maintain those high standards and hold the respect of the people we serve did something to make things better.
I am keen that this is not seen to be a party political issue, and the hon. Members for Batley and Spen (Kim Leadbeater), for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) and for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith), and the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), all put their names to the amendments. For that reason, I hope very much that I will not need to press them to a vote. If there is an objection, I intend to do so this evening.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the Chair of the Committee on Standards, Chris Bryant.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I start by being slightly pernickety, which is to say that I am not a right hon. Gentleman. I do not know whether the Lord President of the Council can do anything about that, but I note that she referred to me as such, for which I am grateful.
On a serious point, historically, we will probably be considered the standards Parliament, because standards have been such a prominent part of the politics of this whole Parliament. As a colleague of 649 of my closest friends, I feel quite painfully the fact that, in this Parliament, 16 Members have already been suspended for a day or more, or have withdrawn from the House before any investigation was completed. That puts this Parliament as having suspended more people than any Parliament in many decades. That, I suspect, is partly because we have put in place the ICGS, which is dealing with work that would previously have been swept under the carpet. Even in my own time in the House, these issues would have simply been dealt with by the Whips and somebody would have been either quietly paid off or told not to complain. I am really glad that that culture is changing, that people feel able to complain when they feel bullied or sexually harassed and that behaviours that were thought to be acceptable 15 or 20 years ago are no longer considered so in the House. We may have more of this before the end of this Parliament, and we just need to bear cognisance of that. Even if we look only at the code of conduct cases, we have ended up suspending more in this Parliament than for a very long time.
I had some very wealthy relatives. When I was young, they taught me that if a person ever inherited money, it was because it had been held in trust. As Members of Parliament, we inherit our seats—not normally hereditary seats, but in some cases they are—and we inherit the reputation of the House that came from previous generations. It is important for us to hold that in trust and pass it on to the next generation of Members of Parliament burnished rather than tarnished. We will have to do a job of work throughout the rest of this Parliament to be able to do that effectively.
The system, I believe, also has to be fair to Members of Parliament. It is phenomenally complex and sometimes, in addition, complicated. An individual Member will be subject to rules of their own party, the ICGS rules, the code of conduct, the Electoral Commission, and the law of the land, and sometimes it is difficult for them to have all those things in their mind. That is why it is so important that the system for Members of Parliament is completely fair, embodies natural justice, and makes sure that the individual complainant—if there is a complainant—and the Member themselves are given an opportunity to put their case and for it to be heard fully. The court of public opinion is not often a fair place. It often jumps to conclusions and decides things far too rapidly. My worry is that, sometimes, our processes happen far too slowly, and that is not justice for either the complainant or the Member, especially as politics has a shelf life—we have elections, for example—and sometimes cases keep going for years, which is not fair on anybody’s mental health either.
Ever since I joined the Committee, I have always wanted us to have some formal process of appeal. I have argued that the system that we have had heretofore provides a sort of form of appeal: if the Commissioner finds against the Member, the Member is allowed a very full opportunity to make their case to the Committee in oral or written evidence. To be honest, it is better that we have a much clearer definition of the roles of the Commissioner and the Committee. That is what Sir Ernest Ryder has provided us with. He gave us a clean bill of health on how we have been operating in the past. He was quite clear in saying that there is not only one way of having a fair trial or hearing; there are many different ways. It might be an inquisitorial system such as we have, but it might be a confrontational system, or an adversarial system, as we have in a court of law. Of course, Committees of the House of Commons are not a court of law; they are fundamentally different. If we went down an adversarial route, the costs would increase dramatically and the length of proceedings would be very different. We have also always had a fundamental principle in the House that a Member speaks for themselves; if they cannot, then I would argue they have slightly lost the plot.
Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con)
I want to put on record my thanks to the lay members on the Committee. It is a unique Select Committee in Parliament and lay members—members of the public who are selected—play an important part. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree with me that the Committee is much stronger for having lay members sitting there alongside parliamentarians.
Chris Bryant
Indeed; that was the next point I was going to make. The hon. Gentleman is very good at doing that in Committee, incidentally, and persuading me of the view that I already hold, but that may just mean that we proceed very much on a consensual basis in the Committee and there is no partisan divide at all. Nor is there a divide between the lay members and the Member members.
There was a point at which people were arguing that MPs should not be involved at all in any of these processes, but I think that is wrong in relation to code of conduct cases. We often end up having a discussion about what casework really involves, or what an all-party parliamentary group does, and I think we make better decisions thereby. However, I do not think we could do that without the lay members and without their having a vote. The balance between the two, the seven lay members and the seven Members, is a good one, and it is sometimes a genuinely fascinating debate, with people offering different perspectives.
On the motions before the House, first, I hope that introducing a procedural protocol that lays out all the processes and what a Member can expect if they have to go through an investigation that ends up going all the way to the Committee will be helpful to all Members. We have laid all that out.
There has been some criticism in the past about whether the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, who is an adviser to the Committee, should be present when the Committee is considering a memorandum and producing a report on an individual Member. We have decided that from now on—and we are already operating this—the Commissioner will not be present. If we have questions for the Commissioner, we will send them in writing and receive answers in writing, and that will also be available to the Member under consideration.
Secondly, as the Leader of the House has already said, we are introducing an appeal through the Independent Expert Panel. That is a formalised process, and some people may find that that process is stricter than the previous system, because Members cannot appeal just to have a regurgitation of the facts or the argument; there are clear reasons why someone might be able to proceed to appeal, and the appellate body, the IEP, might decide, “I’m sorry, that doesn’t really count. You just want to rehearse the arguments all over again.” Members may find that this is a stricter process, but it closely parallels the situation in many tribunal systems and Sir Ernest Ryder, who had responsibility for the tribunals system in England and Wales, has helped us to get to that position.
There is one other thing that the Leader of the House did not mention, but which I am grateful that the Government have included in the motions. Let us say that the Commissioner recommends that a Member has breached the rules and the Committee decides that there has been a breach of the rules and wants to impose a sanction. We will publish our report, in the way we have done, with the Member concerned getting an embargoed copy an hour before it is published. They will then have a period of time in which to decide whether to appeal. If they do, that goes to the Independent Expert Panel. However, at the end of that process, if the IEP upholds the Committee’s decision and the sanction, the motion should be put to the House forthwith—that is to say, without debate and without amendment, exactly like any other recommendation from the Independent Expert Panel in relation to independent complaints and grievance scheme issues. That makes for perfect clarity and simplicity.
I am grateful, in a way, that the Government have corrected our homework in two regards. The first is in relation to Members’ being allowed to inform their own staff. I think the Government have made that perfectly sensible amendment, which was a sin of omission of ours rather than a sin of commission. The Leader of the House referred to the issue of members of the Committee recusing themselves, which is mentioned in the report and has been raised by some Members. If a member of the Committee has attended only one of the sessions at which an individual case is considered, should they be able to take part in the final decisions? There is nothing in Standing Orders that allows a Committee to prevent a member from taking part; in the end, it is a matter for the member’s own conscience. Broadly speaking, in most of our minds, someone who had not attended the individual Member’s oral evidence would not be able to give them a fair hearing. It is not in the motion—we are relaxed about that—but I wanted to give the House an indication of where we are going on that issue.
I thank both Sir Ernest Ryder and Sir Stephen Irwin. I feel a bit surrounded by knights of the realm sometimes, but it is good to have a new knight of the realm on the Committee—the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker), who joined us today. I am grateful to the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain); her measure is perfectly sensible. The trouble with conventions and gentlemen’s agreements is that if there is no longer a gentleman on the other side of the agreement, it is no longer an agreement, so it makes perfect sense to put that on the face of the Bill.
The Leader of the House referred to some other issues. Obviously, I would have preferred it if we were dealing with the whole of our report. She referred to how she wants to achieve consensus. We on the Committee think that we have done so, we are open to discussion, but there are some issues I want to raise.
First, we want to ban the provision of paid parliamentary advice, including providing or agreeing to
“provide services as a Parliamentary strategist, adviser or consultant”.
That is self-evident. I think everybody supports it and I would like to make that the rule—it is not yet the rule.
We also think that Members who have second jobs, especially if they are ongoing, should have a contract saying what they and cannot do, because sometimes people will put in a contract, “You will provide contacts with Government on our behalf.” Well, Members cannot do that as that is, expressly, paid lobbying. We think they should be able to provide a contract; the Government disagree.
We want to clarify the serious wrong exemption, which Owen Paterson tried very aggressively and assertively to use as his excuse last year. It just did not wash, but it needs to be clearer for Members.
We want to clarify the paid lobbying rules, which would help out hon. Members a bit, because they are not clear in some areas. At the moment we draw a distinction between a Member “initiating” or “participating” in an approach to or a meeting with a Minister or an official. That is a completely false distinction and we need to get rid of it.
The one big difference I have with the Leader of the House is in relation to the registration of ministerial interests. I know the previous Leader of the House used the line about the constitutional principle of the separation of powers a lot. That is complete and utter baloney. It is nonsense. That phrase has carried on from the previous Leader of the House but one, now I think about it. We do not have a separation of powers. By definition, Ministers are Members of this House. My anxiety is that ministerial offices quite often get the rules about the House wrong, and sometimes Ministers or Members leave staff to do the registration when it is the responsibility of Members. I hope we can get to a better place on that.
It is a fundamental principle that a member of public should be able to look online for a Member—whether they are Minister now, were a Minister a month or six months ago, or have not been a Minister at all this year—and see all the facts about their registrable financial interests, so as to be able to judge whether that Member was acting “without fear or favour”, or was acting with some other consideration in mind. It is, in a sense, even more important for a Minister than it is for others. If two Members, one an ordinary Member of Parliament and one a Minister, go to an air show, with the hospitality, the accommodation and so on paid for by an arms company—it might come to £3,500—it is probably more important for us to know that the Minister was given that hospitality, because it is the Minister who might be making decisions on procurement from that company. Transparency and equality between all Members is really important, and all the information needs to be searchable and findable. We need to do more work on that.
The Government need an adviser on the ministerial code, and I hope that that will come as soon possible. I am very fond of Lord Geidt, who is a magnificent man. I think he felt crushed by the events of the last of years. If we are to hold in trust the reputation of Parliament and of the whole of politics, we must get someone in place as soon as possible.
Like the hon. Member for Warrington South (Andy Carter), I thank the lay members of the Committee. I shall mention only two fully by name, because they have just left: Jane Burgess and Arun Midha have served out their time, and we are recruiting new lay members at the moment. We are one down, and we will need another three next year. Paul, Rita, Mehmuda, Vicky, Michael and Tammy do a magnificent job, and I am enormously grateful to all of them.
Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP)
Good evening, Madam Deputy Speaker. I declare an interest in this matter as a member of both the Committee on Standards and the Committee on Privileges, appointed by this House in May 2021. I regard it as a privilege to serve on those Committees.
I start by agreeing with my friend the hon. Member for Warrington South (Andy Carter) about the lay members. The Committee on Standards consists of 14 members, seven of whom are MPs and seven of whom are lay members appointed by the House of Commons Commission following an extensive and comprehensive open recruitment process. All seven lay members have extensive knowledge and experience of public life at a senior level and bring a fresh non-political and unbiased perspective to the work of the Committee. I commend and thank them for their commitment and contribution not only to the report we are debating tonight but to the other work undertaken by the Committee on Standards. The lay members are invaluable in enabling the Committee to reach decisions that more accurately reflect the mood, consideration, interpretation and judgment of the country as a whole, rather than the narrow conclusions that might be reached by elected Members, with conflicting pressures and interests of their own in their Westminster role and in this echo chamber in which we operate.
The Committee’s recommendations followed our code of conduct review that started in 2020. The Committee took an extensive range of written and oral evidence and commissioned a survey of Members to draw up balanced and informed recommendations, and we were greatly assisted by independent advice from Sir Ernest Ryder, former Lord Justice of Appeal and Senior President of Tribunals for the United Kingdom. Sir Ernest carried out a review of fairness and natural justice in the House’s standards system, and the Committee published his review in March 2022.
Sir Ernest concluded that the inquisitorial process for code of conduct cases is fair and compliant with article 6 of the European convention on human rights—the right to a fair trial. Two of Sir Ernest’s principal recommendations were to create a single code of procedure, to be approved by the House, and to introduce a formal appeal system. The motions before the House today would implement those two central recommendations.
The Committee recommended that the Independent Expert Panel, which was established by the House in June 2020 to hear appeals and determine serious sanctions in bullying, harassment or sexual misconduct cases, should be the appeal body. If today’s motions are agreed, there will be an additional step in the process of investigating and adjudicating on breaches. The independent Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards will continue to investigate allegations of breaches of the code. If the commissioner’s opinion is that the MP has breached the code and it cannot be rectified using her own powers, she will refer the case to the Committee for a decision; this is what already happens.
Once the Committee has published its report, the MP will then have 10 working days to lodge an appeal, if they wish to do so. The grounds are in line with the appeals grounds in Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme cases. The Independent Expert Panel would then publish the final outcome unless, in the case of a successful appeal, a case is remitted back to the Committee or Commissioner for fresh investigation or decision.
The Committee published its proposed procedural protocol in July 2022, which brings together material from the Commissioner’s information note, the current chapter 4 of the guide to the rules, and parts of the Committee’s own internal guidance into a single document that we hope is accessible and easy to understand. The protocol also sets out the new process for appeals.
I welcome the Government bringing forward today’s motions and I hope that the new protocol and appeals process will give hon. Members and the public confidence in the integrity and fairness of our standards system. I also sincerely hope that the Government will bring forward motions before too long to allow the House to debate and decide on the proposed new code of conduct and guide to the rules, and the important changes that the Committee is suggesting.
The SNP and I support the reform of practices to ensure that hon. Members of this Parliament have a fair process when allegations have been made against them. We also welcome the motion and proposals to ensure that standards in this House are strengthened, and we look forward to engaging on the proposed reforms. We also welcome the Government bringing forward the motions to implement the Committee’s recommendations on appeals and to approve the proposed new procedural protocol.
In addition, we recommend that consideration be given to training and awareness among hon. Members to provide them with information on the proposed changes. An incredible amount of work has been undertaken by the Committee on Standards regarding the motions being brought before the House today. I also lend my support and that of the SNP to the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain).
Penny Mordaunt
Once again, I thank the Committee on Standards and its pernickety Chair, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant)—we are very grateful to him for being so. As I set out when I opened the debate, we are here to endorse these grounds for appeal. It is the Government’s view that the change will bring welcome consistency to our procedures. I am grateful to all hon. Members for the many thoughtful contributions to today’s debate and for the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain).
I am keen to make progress on all these issues. This particular issue was something that we could do straightaway, and I thought it important to do so, but we will be looking at what more we can do. I mentioned the issue of ministerial declarations: whichever system, whether it is the one advocated by the Chair or the one that I am advocating, requires Whitehall to get its act together—bluntly. That is what I have been focused on and we have acted on that very swiftly.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
Further to the point made by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), it might be helpful for all hon. Members to look at the way that the Scottish Parliament does things. Everything is out in the open. For the amusement of right hon. and hon. Members present, if they look back at my declaration of interests, they will see that it is down in black and white on paper that Mr Mohamed Al-Fayed gave me a side of smoked salmon valued at £30 and a book valued at £20—it is all still there to be seen today. I point out that no questions were asked on his behalf by me in the Scottish Parliament.
Penny Mordaunt
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has clarified that there is nothing fishy about his declarations—[Interruption.] It is late.
Chris Bryant
I am not an unreasonable man when it comes to these issues. The key thing is getting transparency. I am more anxious about getting the rest of the Committee on Standards’ changes to the code of conduct in place; I would love us to be able to say that we will start the new code of conduct on 1 January next year. We will need to do some training and preparation for hon. Members so that they fully understand the new rules, but I hope that the Leader of the House will help us to get to that place.
Penny Mordaunt
I shall certainly do so. There will be other issues that the House will wish to debate and discuss, and there will be areas on which we disagree—for example, we disagree on the issue of descriptors—but we must proceed on a consensus basis.
I would like to add that I think a lot of the issues we have grappled with in this place—whether about security and the integrity of our democracy, the wellbeing of Members of this House or Ministers, or safeguarding and behavioural issues—are not solely owned by the House, but cross over into political parties, as was mentioned, and the Government. Even the chairman of the party in government does not have access to security information in his own Department, the Cabinet Office, about a permissible donor, for example. In my tenure as Leader of the House, I am keen to find a forum in which we can bring together those constituent parts—party, Government and the House of Commons—to really tackle some of these issues, which are very difficult, even if we are doing really well, to grip in isolation. If we are striving for excellence, I think that is a requirement.
I again thank all Members for their contribution. The Government look forward to further debate on this matter to ensure that our standards system commands the confidence of both the public and Members of this House.
Question put and agreed to.
Standing Orders Etc. (Committee on Standards, Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, Independent Export Panel)
Motion made, and Question proposed (Order, this day),
That—
(1) Standing Order No. 149 (Committee on Standards) be amended as follows:
At end, insert new paragraphs as follows:
“() The committee and any sub-committee shall have power to communicate its evidence and any other information in its possession to a sub-panel of the Independent Expert Panel in respect of a Code of Conduct case that has been appealed to the Panel.
() The Speaker shall put the questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on a motion to implement a sanction recommended by the Committee (or a sub-panel of the Independent Expert Panel where it recommends a sanction following an appeal) in respect of a Code of Conduct case forthwith; such a motion may be proceeded with until any hour, though opposed.”
(2) Standing Order No. 150 (Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards) be amended as follows:
(a) In sub-paragraph (4)(a), delete “, and the Member concerned has taken such action by way of rectification as the Commissioner may have required within any procedure approved by the Committee for this purpose”;
(b) In sub-paragraph (4)(b), delete “, if the Commissioner has with the agreement of the Member concerned referred the matter to the relevant Officer of the House for the purpose of securing appropriate financial reimbursement, and the Member has made such reimbursement within such period of time as the Commissioner considers reasonable.” and insert “;”;
(c) At end of paragraph (4), insert “(c) in any case relating to the rules for All-Party Parliamentary Groups if it is the Commissioner’s opinion that the breach involved is minor, or the failure was inadvertent—
where the Member concerned has, by agreement, taken such action by way of rectification as the Commissioner may have required.”; and
(d) Delete paragraphs (6)–(11).
(3) Standing Order No. 150A (Independent Expert Panel) be amended to read as follows:
(1) There shall be a Panel, to be known as the Independent Expert Panel, whose members shall be appointed by the House in accordance with Standing Order No. 150C (Appointment of Independent Expert Panel Members).
(2) The Panel shall consist of eight members, of whom a quorum shall be four.
(3) The functions of the Panel shall be—
(a) to determine the appropriate sanction in Independent Complainants and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) cases referred to it by the Parliamentary Commissioner on Standards;
(b) to hear appeals against the decisions of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in respect of ICGS cases involving Members of this House;
(c) to hear appeals against a sanction imposed under paragraph (a);
(d) to report from time to time, through the Clerk of the House, on the operation of the ICGS as it relates to Members of this House;
(e) To hear appeals against the decisions of the Committee on Standards under Standing Order No. 149(1)(b) in relation to individual cases under the Code of Conduct;
(f) To consider any case of non-compliance by a Member of this House with a sanction imposed under sub-paragraph (a) or any other recommendation made in a report by a sub-panel in relation to an ICGS case; and to determine the appropriate sanction.
(4) The Panel may elect its own Chair.
(5) The responsibilities of the Chair shall include—
(a) ensuring that the Panel and its sub-panels comply with the provisions of the relevant resolutions and standing orders of this House, and with the Procedural Protocol for Code of Conduct cases;
(b) the appointment of sub-panels to consider individual cases;
(c) co-ordinating the work of the Panel with that of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in relation to ICGS cases and the Committee on Standards in relation to Code of Conduct cases;
(d) referring any report from a sub-panel which determines, or confirms on appeal, a sanction that can only be imposed by the House, and any other report from a sub-panel that the Chair considers should be published, to the Clerk of the House who shall lay it upon the Table of the House;
(e) informing the parties concerned of the outcome of any other ICGS case reported to the Chair by a sub-panel, and ensuring compliance as appropriate with sanctions determined or recommendations made by a sub-panel;
(f) establishing the procedure for an appeal against the findings or determination of a sub-panel in cases referred under (3)(a) above;
(g) ensuring publication of an Annual Report on the functioning of the Panel and its sub-panels by referring the report to the Clerk of the House for laying on the Table.
(6) The Panel and any sub-panel shall have power—
(a) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;
(b) to order the attendance of any Member before it and to require that specific documents or records in the possession of a Member relating to its inquiries, or to the inquiries of the Commissioner, be laid before it;
(c) to appoint legal advisers, and to appoint specialist advisers either to supply information which is not readily available or to elucidate matters of complexity within the Panel’s order of reference.
(4) Standing Order No. 150B (Independent Expert Panel: Sub-panels) be amended to read as follows:
(1) Cases referred to the Independent Expert Panel under Standing Order No. 150A (Independent Expert Panel) shall be considered by a sub-panel appointed under paragraph (5)(b) of that order.
(2) A sub-panel shall consist of three members of the Panel and shall have a quorum of three.
(3) Sub-panels shall sit in private.
(4) A sub-panel may request the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards to conduct further investigations in respect of an ICGS case referred to it and may specify the matters to be covered in that investigation.
(5) In respect of a Code of Conduct case a sub-panel may request that the Committee on Standards or the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards share specific documents or records in their possession relating to the sub-panel’s inquiries.
(6) In respect of each case referred to it, a sub-panel shall make a report of its findings to the Chair of the Panel.
(7) Where an appeal is made against a finding or determination of a sanction by a sub-panel in an ICGS case, a new sub-panel shall be established to hear that appeal. No member shall be eligible to hear an appeal against the decision of a sub-panel on which they have served.
(5) Standing Order No. 150E (IEP recommendations for sanctions and the Recall of MPs Act 2015) be amended as follows:
In paragraph (2), after “Order” insert, “in relation to an ICGS case, or where a sub-panel has determined a sanction different to that recommended by the Committee on Standards in a Code of Conduct case,”.—(Penny Mordaunt.)
Amendments made: (a), at the end of paragraph (1) relating to Standing Order No 149, insert:
“; and no Member shall be eligible to participate in any division on such a motion where it relates to their own conduct.”—(Wendy Chamberlain.)
Amendment (b), at the end of paragraph (4) relating to Standing Order 150B, insert new paragraph
“(4A) Standing Order No. 150D (Motions consequent on the ICGS) be amended as follows:
At end, add ‘(5) No Member shall be eligible to participate in any division on such a motion where it relates to their own conduct.’”—(Wendy Chamberlain.)
Main Question, as amended, put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That—
(1) Standing Order No. 149 (Committee on Standards) be amended as follows:
At end, insert new paragraphs as follows:
“() The committee and any sub-committee shall have power to communicate its evidence and any other information in its possession to a sub-panel of the Independent Expert Panel in respect of a Code of Conduct case that has been appealed to the Panel.
() The Speaker shall put the questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on a motion to implement a sanction recommended by the Committee (or a sub-panel of the Independent Expert Panel where it recommends a sanction following an appeal) in respect of a Code of Conduct case forthwith; such a motion may be proceeded with until any hour, though opposed; and no Member shall be eligible to participate in any division on such a motion where it relates to their own conduct.”
(2) Standing Order No. 150 (Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards) be amended as follows:
(a) In sub-paragraph (4)(a), delete “, and the Member concerned has taken such action by way of rectification as the Commissioner may have required within any procedure approved by the Committee for this purpose”;
(b) In sub-paragraph (4)(b), delete “, if the Commissioner has with the agreement of the Member concerned referred the matter to the relevant Officer of the House for the purpose of securing appropriate financial reimbursement, and the Member has made such reimbursement within such period of time as the Commissioner considers reasonable.” and insert “;”;
(c) At end of paragraph (4), insert “(c) in any case relating to the rules for All-Party Parliamentary Groups if it is the Commissioner’s opinion that the breach involved is minor, or the failure was inadvertent—
where the Member concerned has, by agreement, taken such action by way of rectification as the Commissioner may have required.”; and
(d) Delete paragraphs (6)–(11).
(3) Standing Order No. 150A (Independent Expert Panel) be amended to read as follows:
(1) There shall be a Panel, to be known as the Independent Expert Panel, whose members shall be appointed by the House in accordance with Standing Order No. 150C (Appointment of Independent Expert Panel Members).
(2) The Panel shall consist of eight members, of whom a quorum shall be four.
(3) The functions of the Panel shall be—
(a) to determine the appropriate sanction in Independent Complainants and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) cases referred to it by the Parliamentary Commissioner on Standards;
(b) to hear appeals against the decisions of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in respect of ICGS cases involving Members of this House;
(c) to hear appeals against a sanction imposed under paragraph (a);
(d) to report from time to time, through the Clerk of the House, on the operation of the ICGS as it relates to Members of this House;
(e) To hear appeals against the decisions of the Committee on Standards under Standing Order No. 149(1)(b) in relation to individual cases under the Code of Conduct;
(f) To consider any case of non-compliance by a Member of this House with a sanction imposed under sub-paragraph (a) or any other recommendation made in a report by a sub-panel in relation to an ICGS case; and to determine the appropriate sanction.
(4) The Panel may elect its own Chair.
(5) The responsibilities of the Chair shall include—
(a) ensuring that the Panel and its sub-panels comply with the provisions of the relevant resolutions and standing orders of this House, and with the Procedural Protocol for Code of Conduct cases;
(b) the appointment of sub-panels to consider individual cases;
(c) co-ordinating the work of the Panel with that of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in relation to ICGS cases and the Committee on Standards in relation to Code of Conduct cases;
(d) referring any report from a sub-panel which determines, or confirms on appeal, a sanction that can only be imposed by the House, and any other report from a sub-panel that the Chair considers should be published, to the Clerk of the House who shall lay it upon the Table of the House;
(e) informing the parties concerned of the outcome of any other ICGS case reported to the Chair by a sub-panel, and ensuring compliance as appropriate with sanctions determined or recommendations made by a sub-panel;
(f) establishing the procedure for an appeal against the findings or determination of a sub-panel in cases referred under (3)(a) above;
(g) ensuring publication of an Annual Report on the functioning of the Panel and its sub-panels by referring the report to the Clerk of the House for laying on the Table.
(6) The Panel and any sub-panel shall have power—
(a) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;
(b) to order the attendance of any Member before it and to require that specific documents or records in the possession of a Member relating to its inquiries, or to the inquiries of the Commissioner, be laid before it;
(c) to appoint legal advisers, and to appoint specialist advisers either to supply information which is not readily available or to elucidate matters of complexity within the Panel’s order of reference.
(4) Standing Order No. 150B (Independent Expert Panel: Sub-panels) be amended to read as follows:
(1) Cases referred to the Independent Expert Panel under Standing Order No. 150A (Independent Expert Panel) shall be considered by a sub-panel appointed under paragraph (5)(b) of that order.
(2) A sub-panel shall consist of three members of the Panel and shall have a quorum of three.
(3) Sub-panels shall sit in private.
(4) A sub-panel may request the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards to conduct further investigations in respect of an ICGS case referred to it and may specify the matters to be covered in that investigation.
(5) Standing Order No. 150D (Motions consequent on the ICGS) be amended as follows:
At end, add ‘(5) No Member shall be eligible to participate in any division on such a motion where it relates to their own conduct.’
(6) In respect of a Code of Conduct case a sub-panel may request that the Committee on Standards or the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards share specific documents or records in their possession relating to the sub-panel’s inquiries.
(7) In respect of each case referred to it, a sub-panel shall make a report of its findings to the Chair of the Panel.
(8) Where an appeal is made against a finding or determination of a sanction by a sub-panel in an ICGS case, a new sub-panel shall be established to hear that appeal. No member shall be eligible to hear an appeal against the decision of a sub-panel on which they have served.
(5) Standing Order No. 150E (IEP recommendations for sanctions and the Recall of MPs Act 2015) be amended as follows:
In paragraph (2), after “Order” insert, “in relation to an ICGS case, or where a sub-panel has determined a sanction different to that recommended by the Committee on Standards in a Code of Conduct case,”.