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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Tobias Ellwood)
I fear 6.21 pm does not leave enough time to do justice to what has been an incredibly important debate. It is a real honour and a privilege to speak on behalf of the Government on such a critical issue, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan) on raising it. We can see from the number of hon. Members who are present and have contributed why it is important that we get this right.
There has been, I think, a modicum of consensus—certainly more in this debating chamber than the one we just came from, having been interrupted by the Division bell. I hope I can express the feeling in Westminster Hall by saying to all those veterans, “Thank you very much for your service; the nation is truly grateful.” I also thank those who endeavour to provide support to those veterans and their families. It is an indication of the society we are that we look after those people not only when they are in uniform, but once they retire.
I have scribbled a lot of notes, but I suffer from the fact that I now cannot read my handwriting. I will do my best to answer hon. Members’ important questions. There were some themes that developed. As always, I will write to hon. Members with more detail in response to the points they raised.
We are all familiar with individual stories. I am very sorry to hear about what happened to David Jonathon Jukes. It is a stark reminder of what happens when the machine does not work and we do not do what we can. The hon. Member for Portsmouth South is right to point out that 15,000 armed forces personnel leave every single year. I am pleased to say that the majority—more than 90%—are in education or back in employment, if they have done our transition course, within six months of departure. That is great news, but some require support. That support must be very visible and we must communicate it to our veterans, so that they know where it may be found.
For many of those who attempt suicide or, tragically, take their life, it is normally an accumulation of things that have gone wrong. It might be homelessness, mental health or other aspects of their life. We need to work out what those points are. We need to collect data; that was a recurring theme in the debate. I want that and we are working on it. As hon. Members will be aware, the coroners are fiercely independent. I cannot just tell them to collect that data. We are looking at ways that we can collate the information in order to understand better what is going on. We are also working with the NHS and are looking at programmes. We are fully aware that data will help us to understand this problem better and to move forward.
A lot of the issue is to do with stigma. It is difficult for people in the armed forces to say that there is anything wrong with them. Certainly, when I served, we were reluctant to do it. We were fearful of what it would do to our promotional opportunities—particularly if it had anything to do with mental health. We are changing that through our mental health strategy. We are getting people to recognise that if they have got something wrong with their mind and sort themselves out early, they can get back to the frontline and do what they love best: soldiering.
The consequence of that is that more people are stepping forward, either during their armed forces period or afterwards. That has put pressure on the system. Much as I want us to have money for operations and training—we have the spending review coming up, and I hope the Chancellor is watching this debate with interest—we recognise that we need funding for greater support mechanisms that need to be there for our armed forces and veterans.
Mr Ellwood
I will give way only once, because I am already down to four minutes.
Sir Mark Hendrick
The Minister said he cannot force coroners to do things, but the Government can legislate to ensure that the data is collected so that cause and effect can be seen. Just talking about the circumstances somebody is living in at any one moment in time does not take account of the fact that they served in the Army.
Mr Ellwood
We can go down that road, but it will take time, and I want to get there faster. I want that data; I want to understand what is going on. The hon. Gentleman makes an absolutely valid point.
The Government are taking this seriously. We now have a Minister with responsibility for suicide prevention. The Department of Health and Social Care has a national suicide prevention strategy. There is also NHS England’s veterans’ mental health transition, intervention and liaison service, which is a really important stepping stone from serving to civilian life. Every NHS should now have a TIL operation in place. I have seen one in St Pancras—it is a fantastic outfit. However, veterans need to know it is there so they can get the attention that they need. There is a complex treatment process to look after those with more complex needs. We touched on the need for GPs to understand what is going on better. We are now training GPs to be more aware of asking the question, “Are you a veteran?” which is critical in realising what the diagnosis might be. Clearly, more work needs to be done.
My hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), a former Health Minister, outlined the issue. I stress so much that just because somebody served in the armed forces does not mean that the suicide was caused by being in the armed forces. We need to make that very clear indeed. He stressed that people who have served are less likely to take their life than their civilian peers. Every suicide is a tragedy, and every effort must be made to get those numbers down.
My hon. Friend referred to a study from after the Gulf war. We are doing the same with Iraq and Afghanistan, to better understand, keep track of and recognise the concerns, and to be there to help those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. If there is a cohort of people that I am concerned about, it is those who served around the time of the Falklands war. They are stoic and still have that stigma—not wanting to put their hand up. They were not told prior to leaving where help might be found. The Veterans’ Gateway is a fantastic online portal showing where help can be found to provide the support that is needed. That is the cohort I am most concerned about, and that is what we need to work on.
My hon. Friend also mentioned Professor Simon Wessely and the work we are doing with the Royal Foundation. Studies are taking place, and part of our veterans strategy looks at that. Suicide prevention is a core aspect of what we want to do over the next 10 years.
My comrade, the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis), talked of the cost of combat, as well as of how PTSD can incubate. We need to recognise when it might come on—it may be quite some time after they have departed the armed forces.
My hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones)—I would be delighted to visit Chivenor, and I am pleased that it is being retained—talked about the fact that one sixth of veterans may have some kind of complex health needs. I would add that one third of us—the whole of society needs to recognise this—will suffer a mental health challenge in our lifetime. As a society, we are still reluctant to talk about that. The armed forces are the worst, because of that stigma and that unwillingness to step forward. However, that is changing.
I am conscious that I have almost run out of time. I will write to hon. Members with more details. I apologise for not being able to answer all the points that were raised. I remain committed to looking at this. The changes that we have seen to date are good, but more needs to happen. Data is critical. If hon. Members can write to the Chancellor and ask him to recognise that more funding is needed here, because more people are stepping forward and saying, “It’s okay, because I’m not okay—let’s fix me.” We need to take them on board. Let us all work together to make that happen.