Baroness Trumpington
To ask the Chairman of Committees what progress has been made towards the restoration of the murals in the Royal Gallery; and when the work will be complete.
The Chairman of Committees (Lord Sewel)
My Lords, two research projects with Cologne University of Applied Science have been run by the Curator’s Office to examine the condition of the Waterloo and Trafalgar murals and to investigate ways to improve their presentation. The initial research is now complete and discussions will take place with the university staff over the summer about the next steps towards restoration. The Works of Art Committee will consider a range of possible options in the autumn.
Baroness Trumpington (Con)
My Lords, it is now several years since I asked my original Question on this subject. I shall be dead before the damn thing is done.
Baroness Trumpington
Would I be right in assuming that the Royal Gallery is much admired and loved by everybody, except possibly the French President? There is also the fact that it shows women on the battlefield and on fighting ships. I would be grateful if some speed could be shown in the reconstruction—if necessary overpainting—so that we are even more proud of the Royal Gallery when the work is finished.
The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, I certainly hope it will not be a matter of the noble Baroness looking down kindly on us when the time comes for them to be revealed in their original true glory, or as close to their original true glory as we can get it. Considering the national and international importance of these murals it is important to get it right rather than to get it soon. It is a very challenging task to restore the paintings to as near their original condition as possible. One of the very heartening results of the research is that the original pigment beneath the various layers has survived much more successfully in the Royal Gallery than was the case in the Robing Room. We have the opportunity of achieving a very high level of restoration and we should make sure that we get it right.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, I share some of the noble Baroness’s concerns—with the bicentenary of Waterloo coming up next year it seems important to try to get them up to scratch by then. I have noticed around the Palace of Westminster that nearly all the paintings of battles seem to be us defeating the French, which seems a little mean because we have fought most nations in the world. In this centenary of the First World War could we maybe commission a mural representing something such as Jutland or the famous Battle of Amiens in 1918 in time for that commemoration?
The Chairman of Committees
I am certainly going to duck that one. Commissioning works of art is purely a matter for the Works of Art Committee. Fortunately, that is one of the few domestic Select Committees in this House that I do not chair, and I am very grateful.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, speaking as a member of the Works of Art Committee, I think that is a most admirable suggestion. While I agree with all my noble friend said, would it not be a very good thing in the bicentenary year of Waterloo to concentrate on that particular mural and to have a splendid ceremony where the rededication could be performed by my right honourable and noble friend Lady Trumpington with President Hollande as a guest of honour?
The Chairman of Committees
Treading lightly around this question, the serious and core thing is that we are responsible for maintaining the integrity and quality of those murals. It is a challenge; various layers have built up. Some of the problems go back to the very early days of the Building when there was a high level, for instance, of smoke pollution. All that has to be dealt with carefully and delicately. I hear what Members understandably say about how wonderful it would be to do it by next year. I repeat: the much more important objective is to get it right and make sure that we live up to our responsibilities as custodians of this important piece of our heritage.
Lord Morgan (Lab)
My Lords, could it not be made clear when we celebrate the Battle of Waterloo that it was an Anglo-German-Dutch victory and the British forces played a fairly small part numerically, although a distinguished one? I declare an interest as one whose press-ganged Welsh ancestor fought at the Battle of Trafalgar.
The Chairman of Committees
I do not think that I am going to go through a whole list of British military endeavours and divvy out who did what, where and how.
Baroness Maddock (LD)
I declare an interest as the recently appointed chairman of the Works of Art Committee. I listened with great interest, and take seriously what Members have said in the House today. Will the Chairman of Committees agree with me that the task is never easy for us? Everybody wants to come from far and wide to look at what we have here, and it is our job to look after it. However, a lot of people at the moment give us adverse press whenever we spend any money on any art in the Palace of Westminster. It is very difficult.
I hope the Chairman of Committees will support me in a suggestion that I have made to the committee. In the past, many works of art were paid for by Members of this House, so maybe we should mention to people that, when they leave legacies in their will, perhaps a little for works of art here would be one way in which we would have the money to preserve our works of art, make new commissions and not be criticised for spending public money.
The Chairman of Committees
I am more than happy to agree with most of the points of the noble Baroness. It is difficult to maintain the balance between continuous access and getting on with the job of restoring and maintaining the works of art for which we are responsible. On Members making financial support when they leave this House—or leave more than this House—I gently point out that there is a general view that we ought to decrease the size of the House and welcome retirements. I do not think that we would get an increase in retirements if we said that the price to be paid was coughing up to maintain a picture or painting.