The Chairman of Committees
That the 1st Report from the Select Committee (Review of select committee activity and proposals for new committee activity) (HL Paper 145) be agreed to.
The Chairman of Committees (Lord Sewel)
My Lords, in our 2012 report we recommended an increase in ad hoc committee activity, including an additional committee unit. In our 2013 report we recommended a further additional committee unit. As a result, more ad hoc committees have been appointed this Session than ever before.
The Liaison Committee discussed the work of the three ad hoc committees appointed in the present Session with their respective chairmen: the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, chairman of the Olympic and Paralympic Legacy Committee; the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, chairman of the Soft Power Committee; and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, chairman of the Personal Service Companies Committee. All three were enthusiastic about the work of their committees, although the time constraints of the two short ad hoc inquiries had meant that the programmes of both committees had been telescoped. The next Session will be the last in the present Parliament and, as such, may be compressed, so we decided not to recommend the appointment of any short ad hoc committees during the 2014-15 Session.
We discussed the work of this Session’s post-legislative scrutiny committees with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, chairman of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 Committee, and the noble Lord, Lord Shutt of Greetland, chairman of the Inquiries Act 2005 Committee. Both committees have now reported and already have had a very marked and significant impact.
The increase in Select Committee activity during the past two Sessions has been well received, as has been the practice of inviting Members of the House to put forward their own proposals for ad hoc committees. This is a thorough and open process and allows all Members of the House to put forward their suggestions. This year’s deadline of 15 January was advertised on the front cover of Red Benches in December 2013 and through the party Whips and I routinely mentioned the opportunity for Members to submit topics when I went on my usual tour of the party groups and the Cross-Benchers’ meetings.
Twenty-two members of the House put forward proposals for ad hoc Select Committee activity in the 2014-15 Session by the deadline of 15 January. As was the case last year, our consideration was a two-stage process. On receipt of the proposals, a limited amount of research was carried out by the Committee Office to assist our first deliberation. At our meeting on 4 February, we shortlisted a number of the proposals for further scoping work by the Committee Office, which assisted our final recommendations at our meeting on 4 March. I am happy to say that, perhaps in part because of the thorough process that we followed, the committee was unanimous in agreeing the recommendations that are now before your Lordships.
Several Members of the House called for a Select Committee on foreign affairs. The noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, also proposed that the House should appoint a further ad hoc committee on an international relations subject to succeed the ad hoc Committee on Soft Power and the UK’s Influence, which he chaired during the present Session. We were attracted to the proposal put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Howell, but do not think it appropriate at this late stage in the Parliament to set up any new sessional Select Committees, whether on international relations or any other subject. We were attracted also to the proposal put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Tugendhat, for an ad hoc committee to consider a range of issues relating to the Arctic, which could cover defence security, environmental security, energy security and the consequences of the redrawing of world trade routes in a hostile environment. The Arctic is an area that is moving, changing and developing very quickly and brings many significant questions to the fore. We think that this would be a good choice for an ad hoc committee on an international relations subject in the next Session.
The noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, proposed the establishment of a Select Committee on affordable childcare, following a debate in the House on 9 January 2014, and the committee agreed to support her proposal. Access to affordable childcare is an important factor both in women’s participation in the labour market and in child development.
We also agreed to support the proposal put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, for a Select Committee on ICT, competitiveness and skills. This is another topic in which there is considerable interest and expertise in the House, expressed most recently during the Oral Question on 25 February on careers guidance in schools. We also agreed to recommend a new post-legislative scrutiny committee for the 2014-15 Session and to support the proposal of the noble Baroness, Lady Garden of Frognal, for the establishment of a post-legislative scrutiny committee to examine the Extradition Act 2003 and the law relating to extradition.
I hope that your Lordships will support the committee’s decision to maintain the unprecedentedly high level of committee activity in Session 2014-15. Inevitably, it was not possible for the Liaison Committee to recommend to the House all the proposals received, but I hope that your Lordships will agree with me that this is a well balanced group of committees and subject areas.
On 13 March, nearly two months after the deadline for receiving proposals from Members of the House, I was sent an e-mail on behalf of a number of Members of the House asking,
“the Liaison Committee to create an ad hoc select committee on reform of the civil service to start work immediately”.
I hope that noble Lords will understand that this struck me as a bit of a bolt from the blue in that it sought to bypass what is an open, transparent and established selection process. I found it difficult to understand how a topic that received no support on 15 January could suddenly emerge by 13 March as the most urgent and important topic that we should address. I am therefore pleased to see that the noble Lord, Lord McNally, has now tabled an amendment referring to the possibility of a Joint Committee on the Civil Service, particularly asking the House to agree that, if a message were received from the House of Commons inviting the House of Lords to appoint its share of such a Joint Committee, the Liaison Committee would meet again to consider the proposals. I am very happy to agree to that and accept the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord McNally, as it reflects our normal procedure—as one would expect, given that the noble Lord was until recently a member of the Liaison Committee. Of course, I cannot prejudge the decision that the Liaison Committee may make if we were to receive any such message from the House of Commons.
Lord McNally
At end to insert “with the proviso that, in the event that the House of Commons invites the House of Lords to appoint a Committee to join with a Commons Committee as a joint committee on the Civil Service, the Liaison Committee will meet again to consider the proposal”.
Lord McNally (LD)
My Lords, let me make it clear that tabling the amendment in no way changes my opinion of the Lord Chairman of Committees—a comrade in arms. I have tabled the amendment because the Lord Chairman said, in response to the e-mail to which he referred, which was signed by me and the noble Lords, Lord Norton, Lord Hennessy and Lord Forsyth:
“When the Liaison Committee last met, I had heard by word of mouth that particularly in the Commons there were Members interested in a Joint Committee on Civil Service Reform. As no formal process had been received the Committee could not consider this in great detail, but the general feeling of the Committee was that the terms of reference would need to be considered carefully. The subject is a large and important one, and Members felt that it was unlikely that justice could be done to such a complex issue in the parliamentary time available before the 2015 election”.
However, the report to the House refers in no way to that discussion. I am in no way casting doubt on the Liaison Committee, but I felt that without this amendment being accepted—I am very grateful that it is accepted—if the other place called for a Joint Committee, the response would be that the Liaison Committee had already discussed it and we were not in favour of it. That would be a disgraceful response if the other place expressed an interest in such a Joint Committee on the Civil Service.
I served on the Liaison Committee for nine years and I am pleased that recent reforms have made it less arthritic. However, the Liaison Committee should be able to respond very quickly to need. I do not believe that the fifth year of this Parliament is a dead or fallow period, particularly when the Executive are pressing ahead with such an important thing as Civil Service reform. The idea of a Civil Service chosen on merit and politically neutral is one of the great reforming gifts of 19th-century Liberalism to our governance. We should not let that go away casually while Parliament is not looking. It is not acceptable that Civil Service reform should go ahead without proper parliamentary scrutiny.
In passing I would say that I recently had the honour of serving in government for three and a half years and my impression was that we still attract talent into our Civil Service and that it is still based on a very strong ethos of public service. If we are not to throw that away casually or by the back door, Parliament will have to be very alert. I therefore put down this marker to the Liaison Committee. Some very distinguished Members from all parties in the other place have pressed for such a committee. I hope that the Liaison Committee will react nimbly and positively to such a request.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
I shall speak briefly. As the noble Lord has pointed out, I added my name to the e-mail that was sent. I say to the Chairman of Committees that I think it is a bit bureaucratic to say that the deadline was 15 January when we had a major debate in this House on the Civil Service in which almost every speech expressed concern about maintaining the integrity of the Civil Service and its political independence. After that there were moves at a very senior level in the other place to have an initiative on a joint basis between both Houses. Therefore, we made a request for a committee to be established after the deadline because of the circumstances that occurred in both Chambers of Parliament. I say very gently to the Chairman of Committees that, if the Liaison Committee is so concerned about its procedures that it does not take account of what is being said in both Houses of Parliament, perhaps more flexibility needs to be introduced into these procedures.
I am very concerned indeed by some of the proposals being put forward for reform of the Civil Service. When I was Secretary of State for Scotland, we were in government but I always felt that I was in opposition. The Civil Service in the Scottish Office was pretty committed to establishing a Scottish Parliament and we were pretty committed to not establishing a Scottish Parliament. We were also committed to a whole range of quite radical reforms that went against the grain. I have to say that I never, ever experienced anything other than complete and total professional service from the Civil Service. If you gave it a lead, it would respond, and respond with great professionalism and integrity.
I observe the Civil Service now; I observe the degree to which there is turnover in important departments such as the Treasury; I look at the numbers of Permanent Secretaries who seem to survive for less than 12 months; and I look at the proposals that are coming from the coalition to politicise and increase the number of special advisers. These are all hugely revolutionary and important changes and when, come the general election, each political party will no doubt have something to say on its views on the Civil Service, it will be important that we have an informed debate.
I therefore regret the fact that there will not be an opportunity for us to have a proper look at these issues so that people can make up their minds as to what the right way forward is. I very much hope that, as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, said, should a proposal come from the House of Commons we would respond to it so that the expertise and experience that exist in this House in all quarters can add to what is a central debate to the future of our constitution and good government in our country.
Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB)
My Lords, I make it clear that I make no criticism of the procedures of the Liaison Committee, which were perfectly fair, although I agree with the noble Lords, Lord McNally and Lord Forsyth, that there is an issue for Parliament here. The proposal that there were issues of such importance affecting the Civil Service that they required investigation had the support of not only the Public Administration Select Committee in another place but all the chairmen of the Select Committees that examine departments. It was a unanimous proposal from the Liaison Committee in another place. These are issues of importance, which may well be in the manifestos for the next general election. As I said in my remarks on 16 January, it would be extraordinary if Parliament did not examine them when there is such senior support for that in the House. While I absolutely understand the procedures that were followed by the Liaison Committee and have never sought to overturn either its recommendations or the list of subjects that it has proposed, I hope, as other speakers have, that if the House of Commons goes ahead with setting up an examination of these issues, the Liaison Committee of this House will be flexible enough to agree that this House should join in that investigation.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I must confess that I did not realise that my noble friend Lord McNally had put down this amendment. If I had, I would have put my name to it. There is something seriously wrong with our Civil Service today and there is no better place than your Lordships’ House to give consideration to how it should be reformed.
Lord Higgins (Con)
My Lords, I am sure that the House is anxious to get on with the Budget debate, as I am, so I shall not delay it for more than a few moments. However, paragraph 12 of the report that we are considering draws attention to an extremely serious situation, where the work of the ad hoc Select Committee on Personal Service Companies has been seriously handicapped by the fact that the Treasury Minister concerned refused either to give oral evidence or to allow his officials to give evidence. That was on the grounds that we were concerned only with the administration of the situation, whereas quite clearly the whole thing operates within a legal and legislative framework that is the responsibility of the Treasury. We ought to have been able to question Treasury Ministers on the implications of that legislation for the subject that we were discussing. The committee’s report clearly says that this situation is “unfortunate”, but I am not clear what representations the Liaison Committee is making to the Government, and perhaps to the Chancellor of the Exchequer in particular, about this extremely unfortunate situation, which has handicapped the ability of the committee to carry out its work.