The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Jane Ellison)
It is a genuine pleasure to respond to this Backbench Business Committee debate. I was a member of the Committee when my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), who initiated the debate, made a bid for it, although at the time I did not expect to respond to it, so I am in an interesting position. My hon. Friend made a great bid and we have had a terrific debate. I am grateful for the contributions from all hon. Members.
It is good that we are debating this important issue now. It has been helpful for me, as a new Minister, to hear arguments put so eloquently from across the House, and I will try to respond to some of the specific points made and to set out the Government’s position. I recognise that I will disappoint some people, but I will try to give a flavour of the Government’s current position and mention some of the important measures we are taking on tobacco control.
As many hon. Members have said, tobacco use remains one of our most significant public health challenges. For me as a new Minister, over the past month briefing after briefing and chart after chart have illustrated how important and what a significant public health challenge tobacco control is. There is no question in my mind that it is an essential aspect of any Government’s commitment to reduce the number of people dying prematurely in our country, and it is essential to promoting the health and well-being of children. A number of speakers have made the point that two thirds of smokers say they were regular smokers before they became adults. Many have spoken about adult choice, but we must recognise that by the time many people are addicted to smoking, they are already an adult and the addiction started as a child.
As hon. Members know, the Government have decided to wait before deciding on standardised packaging, but I do not recognise some of the time frames that people have ascribed to our position. I said that during Health questions, and I repeat that the policy remains under active consideration.
Interesting points have been raised in the debate, including about emerging evidence from Australia and studies carried out elsewhere, some of which the shadow Minister referred to in her contribution. Evidence and information are emerging all the time, and we want to spend more time assimilating that information and considering the likely effect that standardised packaging would have in this country. It is sensible and sound politics, particularly when dealing with a controversial area and a litigious industry, to show the stages by which we reach a decision, and I am sure that Members appreciate that we must be able to evidence that decision.
Alex Cunningham
If we are going to allow another half a million young people to take up smoking over the next three years while the Government decide whether to introduce plain packaging, what measures will the Minister take to hit the big numbers that we know plain packaging—or standardised packaging—could affect?
Jane Ellison
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman corrected himself, because it is important that we do not call it plain packaging—it is standardised. I hear his point and will move on to address some of the specific issues. Many people have cited such numbers.
Jane Ellison
The Government are following discussions in another place closely. Beyond that, I am not able to comment in this debate, but we are well aware of those discussions and Ministers are participating in them.
Australia introduced standardised packaging in December 2012, and New Zealand and the Republic of Ireland have committed to do that. In addition, other academic studies are emerging about the effects of that policy.
The UK has a long and respected tobacco control tradition internationally, although at times in this debate it has been possible to miss that point. Under successive Governments the UK’s record has been good, and we will continue to implement our existing plan to reduce smoking rates while keeping the policy of standardised packaging under active review. The tobacco control plan for England sets out national ambitions to reduce smoking prevalence among adults, young people and pregnant mothers. As the plan makes clear, to be effective, tobacco control needs comprehensive action on a range of fronts.
I will talk a little more about this in the context of devolved powers of public health to local government, but there is a slight danger that by focusing only on one aspect of tobacco control, we forget that there are other—and indeed more—things that we could do. Even if it was possible to say today that we would do this tomorrow, we would still be debating how we could effectively control tobacco and stop children taking up smoking. As various hon. Members have said, including the right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron), this is an ongoing battle to protect children’s health.
Barbara Keeley
Is the Minister concerned about the fact that between April 2012 and March 2013, there was an 11% decline in the number of people setting a quit date? We are concerned about children, but if they are still watching their parents smoking, it is more likely that they will start. I hope that she is disturbed by the fact that the numbers setting out to quit are falling—it is the first fall since 2008-09. The Minister should address that point.
Jane Ellison
We are aware of that, but smoking in this country has dipped below 20% for the first time ever. I am aware of the hon. Lady’s concerns and I shall talk a bit about some of the public health campaigns and the new opportunities, not just for the Government but for local government and individual Members, on tobacco control policy.
As our plan makes clear, effective tobacco control needs comprehensive action on many fronts. The Government are taking action nationally. We are committed to completing the implementation of legislation to end the display of tobacco in shops. Since 2012, supermarkets can no longer openly display tobacco. In 2015 all shops will need to take tobacco off view. Tobacco can no longer be sold from vending machines, which has stopped many young people under 18 accessing smoking.
I do not want to downplay the importance of this policy—we are conscious that it could make an important contribution—but we can do many other things. The reasons why children, in particular, take up smoking are very complex, and are to do with family and social circumstances. One policy alone will not address that. Local authorities have a vital role to play, which is why we have given local government responsibility for public health backed by large ring-fenced budgets—more than £5.4 billion in the next two years. I encourage all hon. Members who have participated in today’s debate to ask tough questions of people locally. I hope that they are talking to their public health directors, health and wellbeing boards and clinical commissioning groups about where tobacco control sits in the armoury of local government. That is why this power has been devolved. The local insight and innovation made possible by that policy will help us to tackle tobacco use at a local level as well as through policies that the Government can put in place.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
I congratulate the Minister on her obvious grasp of the subject. She is right to say that this will be a continuing debate beyond the issue of standardised packaging. Does she agree, however, that an increasing welter of evidence suggests that standardised packaging would help in the fight against smoking, particularly among the young? Will she give an assurance that the Government will increase the urgency of their review of the situation, and especially of the growing evidence in favour of standardised packaging?
Jane Ellison
I can give my hon. Friend that commitment and I am giving this my urgent consideration. It is impossible to sit through a debate such as today’s, and hear the passion expressed by many hon. Members on both sides of the House, without going away, as the public health Minister, to give it one’s serious, urgent and active consideration.
I have laid out a little challenge to hon. Members to take this issue up at the local level. I appreciate that it is right that I should be held to account on this issue, but in the new world of devolved public health powers, I urge hon. Members to have those conversations with their health and wellbeing boards and with public health directors. In areas of the country where smoking prevalence among children is a difficult issue—some examples have been cited in the debate—our belief is that by devolving some of the power and, importantly, the ring-fenced budget to local authorities who know their communities best, they can begin to tackle the problem with great urgency and added innovation in a way that central Government cannot.
Public Health England has an important part to play. As a new, dedicated, professional public health service, it will be available to advise on local action to promote public health and encourage behaviour change to help people live healthier lives. It will put expert advice at the disposal of local authorities.
Alex Cunningham
The Minister has outlined some good ideas, but will she say whether she would support a free vote on this issue on the Floor of the House?
Jane Ellison
With respect, I am outlining these other aspects to underline the point that one policy is not sufficient to tackle this problem. There is a slight danger of believing that the approach is a silver bullet. It is an important policy that has been given serious consideration, and the case has been made for it, but we would still be debating how to stop children smoking, even if it were introduced.
Jane Ellison
I will move on as I have tried to respond to the hon. Gentleman’s point.
Our local stop smoking services are among the best in the world. The fact is that smokers trying to quit do better if they use them. Research has found that
“English stop smoking services have had an increasing impact in helping smokers to stop in their first 10 years of operation”—
although I hear the challenge that has been made on the recent drop—
“and have successfully reached disadvantaged groups.”
The latter are obviously particularly important from a public health point of view.
This year, Public Health England has launched a new dedicated youth marketing programme. This marketing strategy aims at discouraging a range of risk behaviours, including tobacco use, among our young people. In this financial year, that is worth more than £1.5 million.
Barbara Keeley
The Minister does not seem to be saying what the Government will do about the decline in quitting—the fact that stop smoking services are not reaching people to the extent that they should be. Does that concern her, and is she going to do something about it?
Jane Ellison
That is something that I will look at carefully, but I point out to the hon. Lady that obviously this issue now falls under the remit of Public Health England. It will be on my agenda for the next meeting with the chief executive, and I will write to her after I have had that discussion, if that would be helpful.
Jake Berry
Does the Minister think that there is any connection between a record low number of people smoking and relatively few people contacting the quitting helpline? Does she think that we might be down to the core of people who actually choose to smoke and do not want to give up?
Jane Ellison
I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me, but after four weeks in this job, I do not know that. I am not prepared to speculate on such an important issue, but I am happy to come back to him with more detail when we have given it further consideration.
Through Public Health England, we will continue to run national marketing campaigns, such as the hard-hitting health harms “Mutation” campaign, in the new year. I am sure that no one who saw that can forget the images in the campaign, which reminded smokers about the physical damage caused by smoking. We have just finished Stoptober—we have now moved on to Movember—a new approach launched in 2012 challenging smokers to stop for 28 days, all at the same time. We know that that can be a key turning point if people want to quit for ever.
The Government will continue to play their part. To discourage smoking, we have some of the highest-priced tobacco in Europe and we will carry on with our high tax policy. That is coupled with an effective strategy, led by HMRC, to reduce the illicit tobacco trade, which has been mentioned in the debate. However, we must not forget the great progress that has been made. As I said, fewer than 20% of adults in England now smoke, compared with 39% in 1980. However, we want that number to fall, and there is no room for complacency.
On standardised packaging and illicit tobacco, some 21% of the UK’s cigarette market was illicit in 2000. Latest estimates from HMRC for 2012-13 suggest that that proportion has dropped to around 9%. Enforcement is having a real impact on illicit tobacco and we want to see the figure fall still further. The Government, working with other interested parties, are trying to drive down the size of the illicit tobacco market through improved enforcement and reducing opportunities for fraud. I am grateful to those hon. Members who have made the point that if we were to adopt standardised packaging, it would not mean plain packaging. Approaches such as anti-smuggling devices could be built into standardised packaging, if we choose to go down that route.
A few hon. Members were concerned about the possible impact of the policy on jobs. Obviously, the Government need to consider all aspects of the policy, including any impact on employment, alongside possible health benefits. Others made a point about small retailers, and some might have been present for a recent late-night Adjournment debate to which I responded that was led by the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt), who is not in the Chamber. She made some very interesting points, especially by citing evidence from a small retailer who told her that tobacco constituted 14% of his profits, but 50% of his turnover, and who was actively trying to diversify his business into areas that yielded greater profit.
I want to place on record our position on tobacco industry lobbying, which several Members mentioned. We are well aware that the tobacco industry opposes the introduction of standardised packaging, as has been the case on many other tobacco control policies, and we are equally aware of our commitment to protect public health policy on tobacco control from the commercial and other vested interests of the tobacco industry. We encourage tobacco companies to respond in writing to consultations so that we can understand and take account of their views about the implications of policy options. Members will fully appreciate why we have to take such steps properly to inform a robust public policy in this area.
The right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow)—he is not in the Chamber, but I know he had a long-standing previous engagement—made a point about the proposed tracking and tracing scheme in the EU directive that is under negotiation. We are considering those details, particularly in the light of our obligations under the framework convention on tobacco control, to which reference has been made.
I reiterate that this policy is under active consideration, but I want hon. Members to reflect on what else we can do.
Dame Angela Watkinson
When looking at future policy development, will the Minister pay greater attention to how parents can be encouraged to take responsibility for the behaviour of their young children and how much money they have to spend unsupervised? Such money obviously gives children access to tobacco, but it is in parents’ hands to control it.
Jane Ellison
I thank my hon. Friend for that important point. We know that many children who start smoking are within a family who smoke and that they are sometimes given cigarettes by parents or other family members and friends. I will of course consider her very relevant point.
I reiterate that there are many things we can do, but we are actively considering whether standardised packaging could make an important contribution to our overall policy on tobacco control. I have noted the strength of feeling on both sides of the House. This has been a good debate, and an informative one for me as a new Minister. As I have said, I am actively considering the matter, and today’s powerful contributions have spurred me to give further and urgent consideration to this important public health issue.