(11 years, 2 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Redesdale
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will require Ministers to report on the financial and carbon consequences of any data retention requirements included in any future legislation.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach)
My Lords, it is government policy to conduct an impact assessment, including analyses of the economic and carbon consequences, for any regulation that affects the private sector or civil society, or significantly affects public services. The Government published the draft communications data Bill in June 2012 and it has undergone intensive pre-legislative scrutiny. We intend to bring forward revised legislation in due course, which will be accompanied by an updated impact assessment.
Lord Redesdale
My Lords, is the Minister aware that sending an e-mail with an attachment can cost about 4 grams of carbon for each e-mail? If you scale that up for the amount of data that the Government are asking to be retained over the next few years, the cost runs into the tens or hundreds of millions of pounds for each piece of legislation we pass. This also causes a massive problem in the amount of electricity that is needed in data centres. Considering that the country is facing an energy shortage, do the Government not agree that perhaps an impact assessment in respect of the data that are required to be retained should be published on the face of each Bill?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I will just make it clear that the Bill does not provide for the storing of the content of a communication, including the attachments to an e-mail. That would be interception, which is governed by a separate set of rules. Although we will seek to require providers to retain more data under the Bill, the amount of physical space and the electricity required for these data stores will be relatively low, particularly as providers may well take the opportunity to update to newer technology.
The Earl of Erroll
My Lords, as the Government are going to keep the address of every single website that someone visits, and where they are from, should the assessment not be talking about exabytes or yottabytes of data, not just the smaller amounts that the Minister is talking about, as I understand that they will have to be retained in such a way that they can be accessed by various services?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
The noble Earl gets to the heart of what the communications data Bill is about. It is about who was communicating, when and from where, and how and with whom. It is not about the content of the communication, which CSPs will not be required to retain. To emphasise why this material is required, it is used in the investigation and prosecution of a broad range of crimes, including terrorism. CD has played a role in 95% of all serious organised crime prosecutions and every major security or counterterrorism operation over the past decade.
Lord West of Spithead
My Lords, does the Minister agree that this is about just the envelope and not the letter, that this material has always been available and it is merely that different ways of charging will mean that it stops being available? It is not anything new.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
The noble Lord is very knowledgeable on this subject as he was responsible for it in the past. What he has said is absolutely true.
Lord Redesdale
My Lords, if the Minister will forgive me, my Question was about the actual carbon cost of the data, not of terrorism legislation. If you take the storage that is already covered by legislation from the Department for Work and Pensions and the Ministry of Justice—we are doing the figures at the moment—it seems that the electricity cost is greater than that of some small African countries. This is a growing problem that does not seem to have been addressed by any government department; it is not about a specific piece of legislation.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I come back to my noble friend by saying that I did address this issue. In seeking to require providers to retain more data, technical experts who have advised me and other Ministers in this matter say that the amount of physical space and electricity required for these data will be relatively low. We do not expect a significant carbon footprint or any notable impact on the British carbon commitment as a result of these proposals.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
My Lords, I suspect that I am not the only Member of this House to find this discussion way over my head, yet it sounds of potentially great public importance. Will my noble friend the Minister consider sending round a sort of fool’s guide to these issues?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
Unfortunately, we do not have a PowerPoint facility in the Chamber. Noble Lords will know that I am very keen that, when this Bill is introduced, we should have every opportunity to inform Peers of its implications and what it is seeking to do. I will take every opportunity to communicate with all Peers on this issue.