That the draft Charging Orders (Orders for Sale: Financial Thresholds) Regulations 2012, which were laid before this House on 26 November 2012, be approved.
The House divided: - Ayes: 279 / Noes: 214 - Question accordingly agreed to.
The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Mr Amess) for securing this debate on such an important subject, and I pay tribute to him and my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) for consistently championing the cause of human rights in Iran. As my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate has just said, one of the most striking and appalling aspects of the situation in that country is that Iran’s own constitution and laws provide for precisely the liberties the breach of which we learn of week by week in the reports from Iran.
A few years ago when I was an Opposition spokesman I briefly visited Iran and was told with great pride by representatives of the Government about the position given to the Armenian and Assyrian Churches in Iran, and the fact that seats were reserved for religious minorities. That stands in stark contrast to the treatment of individual believers and pastors, as has been reported in my hon. Friends’ speeches and in interventions from both sides of the House this evening, and as is apparent from the catalogue of tragic cases of people—particularly, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) pointed out, from the Evangelical and House Church movement inside Iran—who have been imprisoned, tortured and treated in the most appalling fashion.
Jim Shannon
We are talking about the Muslim order of Islamic guidance—I believe that is what it calls itself. It is the blackshirts of that organisation who come to target evangelicals specifically, and that organisation should be condemned at the highest level.
Mr Lidington
There is no doubt in my mind that deliberate and systematic persecution of Christians takes place in Iran. Iran’s supreme leader called last year for efforts to be made to stop the spread of Christianity in Iran. Ironically, that is being done in the name of a faith that prides itself on the message of mercy and compassion, and in the name of a prophet of Islam who accepted the place of Jesus as one of the honoured prophets of Islam. The Koran contains many of the stories of Jesus, including the nativity, told as part of Islam’s own religious revelation. That makes still more shocking what we are observing in Iran today.
Where I differ with my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West is on his challenge that the Government, or the rest of world more generally, are silent on these matters. I can absolutely understand his anger and frustration at the fact that these abuses of human rights have continued year after year, but the British Government have been resolute in calling Iran to account for its human rights violations. We will continue to monitor closely and speak out against such violations in Iran, which not only contravene international law but do not even comply with Iran’s own laws or professed values.
I shall draw the attention of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and that of the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), to this evening’s proceedings. They have frequently condemned the many instances of human rights violations reported to us. We believe that that has contributed significantly to both public and international awareness of individual cases and of Iran’s human rights record, and has helped build pressure on the regime. Sadly, we know, too, that many more abuses remain behind closed doors. The promotion of human rights has always been seen by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary as something that should lie at the very heart of British foreign policy. We regularly make clear to Iran, through the various international forums in which we participate, the importance we place on respecting international human rights law.
Mr Amess
I just want to make something very clear to my right hon. Friend, although I do not want to sour things. This country followed America’s lead and got involved in all sorts of violent conflicts, with disastrous consequences. I was one of the people who voted for the war with Iraq, and that frustrates me. However, the real cause of my frustration is that, despite all this pressure, nothing actually changes. I want some action. Why do we give this dreadful Ahmadinejad a platform at the United Nations?
Mr Lidington
That is not something over which the Government of the United Kingdom have control. Iran is a member of the United Nations. President Ahmadinejad would normally be banned under United States law from visiting the United States, but as the Head of State of a member of the UN he is entitled to travel, via the United States, to the UN General Assembly or to other United Nations meetings in order to represent his country as a member of that organisation. Whatever the sense of anger we feel about that, it is, on balance, not a bad thing that President Ahmadinejad should have to go to speak at the United Nations and be aware, through what happens in the chamber, that representatives of many countries walk out when they hear him speak—