(13 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
22:13 - The House divided: - Ayes: 271 / Noes: 22 - Question accordingly agreed to.
Mr Speaker
Before I ask the Whip to move the motion 4, and before any consequent activity or indication, I ought to say that I think that there is a mistake in the wording of the motion on the Order Paper. It ought not to say “the Committee”; it ought to say “this House”. Members are nodding knowingly. I am merely reminding them of something of which they were keenly conscious in any case, but there you go.
European Union documents
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 119(11)),
Financial Assistance to Ireland and Portugal
That this House takes note of European Union Documents No. 9776/11 relating to a Draft Council implementing Decision on granting Union financial assistance to Portugal, No. 9780/2/11, relating to a Council implementing Decision on granting Union financial assistance to Portugal, and No. 9777/11 relating to a draft Council implementing Decision amending implementing Decision 2011/77/EU of 7 December 2010 on granting Union financial assistance to Ireland; notes the importance of financial stability in the Euro area for the UK; welcomes the recent steps being taken by the governments of Ireland and Portugal to promote growth and return their economies to a sustainable path; welcomes the Government’s success in securing agreement that the European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism will cease to exist once the permanent, Euro area-only, European Stability Mechanism becomes operational in July 2013; and that Article 122(2) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU, the basis for the emergency arrangements, will no longer be needed for such purposes.—(Bill Wiggin.)
Hon. Members
Object.
DELEGAted Legislation (COMMITTEES)
Ordered,
That the motions in the name of Sir George Young relating to the Electoral Commission and the Local Government Boundary Commission for England shall be treated as if they related to instruments subject to the provisions of Standing Order No. 118 (Delegated Legislation Committees) in respect of which notice has been given that the instruments be approved.—(Bill Wiggin).
Welsh gRAND committee
Ordered,
That—
(1) the matter of the Government’s Work Programme and its implications for Wales be referred to the Welsh Grand Committee for its consideration;
(2) the Committee shall meet at Wrexham County Council on Thursday 20 October between 11 am and 4 pm to consider the matter referred to it under paragraph (1) above.—(Bill Wiggin).
procedure
Ordered,
That, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 121(2), Bridget Phillipson be discharged from the Procedure Committee and Nic Dakin be added.—(Bill Wiggin).
business of the House (17 October)
Motion made,
That, at the sitting on Monday 17 October, notwithstanding Standing Order No. 14(3A) (Arrangement of public business), the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of the proceedings on the Motion in the name of Sir George Young relating to the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund not later than two hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion; and such Questions shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved.—(Bill Wiggin.)
Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you specify the identity of the objector to the motion on the business of the House on 17 October so that it can be recorded in Hansard, and also explain the ramifications of the objection? Is it right that that objection will deny the House an opportunity to debate the Hillsborough disaster? It had taken 22 years to reach the point at which it was scheduled for debate in the Chamber.
Mr Speaker
I will take more points of order if they are on the same matter—or, indeed, on other matters—and then I will respond. I will take a point of order first from the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who is on the Opposition Front Bench, and then, of course, I will take one from the Leader of the House.
Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab)
Further to the point of order from my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram), Mr Speaker. The debate on 17 October will be an unprecedented occasion, because 140,000 people signed an e-petition asking for an issue that has not been properly debated here for some 22 years to be brought back to the Floor of the House. They will regard what has just happened with great dismay. People have already booked travel to the House on that evening, and the families of those who died will be attending our proceedings. Surely it cannot be right for one Member to stand up—because he wants to talk about his own pension—and deny those people the opportunity to debate the important issues relating to the Hillsborough disaster, and the huge, huge injustice that was done to the families and the people of Liverpool.
Mr Speaker
I think it right for the House to hear from the Leader of the House before I deal with the point of order from the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg).
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. The Government recognise the strength of feeling about the matter. We intend to table the motion for debate tomorrow, and if it is carried tomorrow—as I hope it will be—the business on Monday will take the shape outlined in motion 9.
Mr Speaker
Before anyone else says anything, let me say that I am not sure that that will be necessary.
I feel that I owe a response to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram), who is a new Member of the House. It is not the practice to name—and certainly not for the occupant of the Chair to take it upon himself to name—a Member who has uttered the word “Object”. No disorderly practice has taken place. There are rules and procedures of the House which have been followed. It is for the hon. Gentleman to interpret the effect of what was stated, and that he has done, very clearly, very explicitly, and, of course, very publicly, on the record. The right hon. Member for Leigh has done the same from the Front Bench, but I think that both Members will agree that the Leader of the House has made the Government’s position very clear.
I intend to take one more point of order on this matter, but I hope that we can then proceed to the next business.
Derek Twigg
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a worry that we will have to go through this procedure tomorrow, especially as the Government had an idea of what would happen tonight. We have families coming down on Monday who have had injustice upon injustice upon injustice heaped upon them, so why did the Government allow this situation to arise tonight? It is ridiculous that they did not sort it out earlier. They knew this could happen, and they should have sorted it out. I just hope that tomorrow we can get through this without any more problems.
Mr Speaker
I note what the hon. Gentleman has said, but the Leader of the House has made his position clear. I shall make two simple points. First, it is not the business of the Chair to worry; on the whole, it is best for the Chair not to devote any time to that, and I do not. Secondly, although of course I understand the hon. Gentleman’s feelings, I know he will appreciate that it is one thing for him to put his very real irritation and consternation on the record, but it is another thing to expect the Chair to seek to extrapolate from every event and offer an interpretation of it. I do not think that is necessary. The Leader of the House has been clear, and I think that is appreciated.
Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not want to detain the House much longer, but I would like to put on the record our appreciation on this side of the House for the swift response of the Leader of the House, as a result of which we can get the position back to where we had all intended it to be, so that the families of all the victims—and, indeed, half of Merseyside, who will be travelling down to listen to the debate on the Hillsborough disaster on Monday—will not be denied the chance for this debate to take place in a timely fashion.
Mr Speaker
I thank the shadow Leader of the House for what she has said, and now that views have been expressed, I hope we can proceed to the Adjournment debate. [Interruption.] Order. Before I call Mr Jamie Reed, may I appeal to Members who are leaving the Chamber—if they feel they must leave—to do so quickly and quietly so that the rest of us can listen with interest to the hon. Gentleman?