Lord Bradshaw
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what encouragement they are giving to Network Rail and other large organisations to increase the number of apprenticeships on offer.
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, Network Rail has a direct funding contract with the Skills Funding Agency, as can any company with 5,000 or more staff. The Skills Funding Agency encourages and supports these large organisations, enabling them to increase the number of apprenticeship places they offer and address their wider skills needs.
Lord Bradshaw
I thank the Minister for that reply. Does she agree that it is urgently necessary to increase the status of apprentices in our country? Does she further agree that professional institutions, be they in engineering or nursing, by adopting a graduate-only approach to membership of those institutions, are making it very unattractive for people to pursue apprenticeships? The way of entering used to be apprenticeship, further education, practical experience and then fellowship.
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, I agree with pretty well everything my noble friend has just said. Apprenticeships should provide a pathway into the nursing profession as they always did. The Government are working with professional bodies and have made it clear that they expect apprenticeships to be a line into any professional standards and to be suitable recognised by the relevant professional body.
Lord Berkeley
My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the excellent scheme that Network Rail operates in its training and apprenticeships but, bearing in mind that the Government are proposing much longer passenger franchises and that there is also a large number of contractors and suppliers in the industry, will she ensure that the apprenticeship schemes that the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, was talking about can be extended to other parts of the industry?
Baroness Wilcox
Yes, my Lords, I can. Already more than 200 forms of apprenticeships are being extended across the country. I am quite sure that the noble Lord, whose knowledge of his industry is so good, will know that we are working very hard to extend exactly what he has asked for.
Lord Jenkin of Roding
My Lords, can I draw my noble friend’s attention to the success of the National Skills Academy for Nuclear, in which I declare an interest as its honorary president? It has successfully built up a programme of training for all levels of staff, including large numbers of apprentices, for which it has secured the support of a large part of the industry and its supply chain. This is something that might be an exemplar to other similar organisations.
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. It came as a surprise to me that we now go from hairdressing to nuclear decommissioning as apprenticeships in this country, which is very worthy.
Baroness Kramer
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that there is a desperate shortage of civil engineers in this country. I believe that in the core team of civil engineers on the Crossrail project there is not a single member under the age of 60. In looking at these schemes, will she give some priority to civil engineering because the need is serious and desperate?
Baroness Wilcox
I am sorry to hear my noble friend’s news that all those people are over the age of 50. I shall look into this when I get back. I cannot imagine—
Baroness Wilcox
Was it 60? Good heavens. I shall look into this when I get back. We must be missing out somewhere.
Baroness Wall of New Barnet
My Lords, does the noble Baroness recognise the importance of apprenticeships across big organisations, as the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, has said—not only Network Rail—and where the Government’s funding is focused. Will she ensure that the quality of those apprenticeships is maintained and not in any way diluted to ensure that the speed of getting people through does not in any way denigrate the apprenticeship qualification?
Baroness Wilcox
The noble Baroness makes a good point. We are aware of it and we are monitoring it carefully.
Lord Boswell of Aynho
My Lords, will my noble friend undertake to ensure that her department works closely with the Department for Education in considering the recommendations trailed in the press today from the excellent Professor Alison Wolf in relation to vocational education? Will she look in particular at the package of incentives which may be necessary to deliver high quality apprenticeships for young people over and above some of the perhaps less well founded quasi vocational qualifications?
Baroness Wilcox
My noble friend is referring of course to Professor Wolf’s review, which was commissioned by this Government. It raises a number of interesting points. We are considering her recommendations and will issue a response in the near future.
Lord Sugar
Will the noble Baroness allow me to go off the rails for one moment and generalise on apprenticeships overall? The coalition Government have announced that they will provide 75,000 new places between now and 2014-15, which seem to be focused on adults. There does not seem to be any other kind of provision for 16 to 18 year-olds. But more to the point—
Lord Sugar
The question is coming. I have been asking my colleagues here why I seem to attract heckling. More to the point, the Government have decided to axe Train to Gain, which provided 575,000 jobs, and the future jobs fund, which provided 100,000 jobs to people who were out of work for more than a year. My question is—
Lord Sugar
If we bundle all these into some form of initiative for providing work for the young and those who are out of work, what is the net reduction in initiatives that has resulted from their cuts?
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, the number of new apprentices in this past year is 279,000 of whom quite a few are very young. As the noble Lord knows, we have a very special pay arrangement which was set up by his Government to ensure that we attract youngsters. I am so delighted that the noble Lord, Lord Sugar, has asked a question because it has given me the opportunity to say once again how marvellous his programme is for attracting apprentices into business, but that the aggressive tone he uses on the programme might not be attracting people into nursing and the quieter causes that we still so very much need in this country, including the youngsters to whom he is referring.