Lord Phillips of Sudbury
My Lords, unless the Minister is dead keen to answer points raised on the amendments so far, I remind him that Amendment 64 is part of the group. Would he like me to withhold my comments?
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Amendment 64 is in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Walmsley. With this amendment, I have had the temerity completely to redraft Clause 1(7) because, with the best will in the world, it is extraordinarily lumpy and unclear. However, I have made a wonderful boo-boo in the redraft, in that I have said that academy arrangements “may” prohibit, when of course it should be “must” prohibit, so I beg noble Lords’ indulgence and ask that “must” be read in place of “may”. However, my point is that in the existing subsection (7) the difference between attendance at a school and education provided at a school is wholly unclear to me. It says that,
“no charge is made in respect of … admission … attendance … or … education provided at the school”.
I suppose that this is really a probing amendment so that the Minister can tell the Committee what is missing from my comprehension.
Baroness Thornton
I promise that I shall say only a few words but I want to add to what my noble friend Lady Royall said in opening this debate. The very helpful Library notes that we received in the briefing pack repeat what is in the Explanatory Notes, so it is very important that this matter is clarified.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I hope that I am able to provide the clarification for noble Lords opposite, including the noble Lord, Lord Rix, and for my noble friends. I start by reassuring noble Lords that academies are prohibited from charging for admission. No pupils on the roll of an academy will have to pay for their education.
On the specific point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, as I said, Clause 1(7)(a) prohibits charging but the Bill as drafted allows for the prospect that an academy may need to charge in certain circumstances. I shall explain the kind of circumstances that I have in mind; I think that we touched on this earlier. For example, an academy may wish to charge for providing evening classes to people not on the school roll. We had earlier debates about wanting a school to be part of a community. Providing evening classes would seem to be a good example of that and the Bill would enable the school to do it. Alternatively, an academy may want another organisation to be able to provide evening classes or other activities that can be accessed by the wider community. Therefore, as we want academies to take part in, and be part of, the local community, that is what the Bill provides for. However, any fees charged would be put back into the academy in accordance with the charitable objects of the academy trust.
So far as concerns charging for nursery or SEN provision in Amendments 67 and 75, I reassure the Committee that academies will not be permitted to charge for education provided during the usual timetabled school hours, including the entitlement to nursery education; nor will they be permitted to charge for special needs provision.
I hope that that provides some reassurance and that the noble Baroness will be able to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
My Lords, I entirely accept that the Minister says there is no intention to charge for education. I also acknowledge that it might be acceptable to charge for evening classes—hence the Explanatory Notes. However, I think that there is some confusion here and I should like the wording to be tightened up in some way. At the moment, it looks as though this could be a back door to charging in due course, and that would concern me deeply. Therefore, I ask the Minister to look at this issue so that when we come back to it—and it is something that I shall want to come back to because it is such a fundamentally important question—the wording will have been tightened up.
Lord Hill of Oareford
I am happy to say to the noble Baroness that there is no back door, but I take her point and will of course reflect on what she said.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Can the Minister confirm that the proposition is that night classes do not constitute education provided at the school but are caught by the phrase, “attendance at … the school”? If that is so, I do not get it. At least the Minister might clarify that.
Lord Hill of Oareford
As I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, the intention is clear. I take on board the point made by my noble friend about the need for clarity. I will reflect on that.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
I shall also speak to Amendments 55, 100 and 110. Special educational needs in relation to academies are a key issue for us on these Benches, for Members throughout the Chamber and for many in the world of education, in particular those pupils who have SEN. There is huge expertise in this House, as was demonstrated during the short debate on Monday, when the Minister was clearly in reflective mood. I know that he is listening and I am glad.
I have to say at the outset that I am fundamentally opposed to special schools being included in the Bill—hence Amendment 18. Most local authorities and schools do a good job by children with special educational needs and by their families. Inevitably, local authorities and schools also find parents who are unhappy with the provision that their children receive. The Lamb inquiry, of which all noble Lords will be aware, reported that many parents are happy with what they receive, but it recommended that we need to be tougher with local authorities and schools that do not comply with their statutory duties towards children with SEN. There is much work to be done in this area but I do not believe that the proposals in this Bill will assist in improving the situation for children with SEN. It is vital that we acknowledge that the impact of the Bill on SEN will be far-reaching, controversial and incredibly complex.
Parliament is now being asked rapidly to pass legislation that says that by September this year special schools could reopen as academies. That means, at least potentially, that many of the safeguards and programmes that drive improvements in SEN provision in communities—
Lord Hill of Oareford
On a point of clarification, it is not envisaged or proposed that a special school would be able to convert by this September. The Government have made it clear that it would be the following September—in 2011.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
I am grateful for that clarification, which is extremely important. Forgive me if I have misled the Committee in any way.
The Bill, as drafted, could mean that many of the safeguards and programmes that drive improvements in SEN provision in communities would simply be dropped or made no longer relevant. That would redesign the SEN approach taken by government to date and completely disrupt the important work of local authorities in this area. There are also serious concerns that SEN provision could be harmed both by the establishment of academies on such a large scale and by the new academies being drawn from those schools that are already strong and which in many cases would be the best place to take on more SEN pupils and deliver real improvements in SEN provision.
As it stands, and as we have discussed, the legislation completely removes local authorities from consultation on academy status. The central funds for SEN provision will be handed out to many schools in a given area. If that is the case, it is vital that we create a framework that gives local authorities, parents and children with SEN, as well as other academies in the area, some certainty and consistency in relation to other schools in the area about what provision each will provide for special educational needs.
Amendments 18, 100 and 110 deal with the issue of special schools by seeking to remove reference to them in the Bill. The way in which we treat less fortunate members of our society is a good measure of any civilised society. The interests of people with SEN are currently addressed primarily by local education authorities. We are greatly concerned that this Bill will damage the ability of local authorities to fulfil their important role in this field and will run the risk of damaging the education, and therefore the life chances, of a great many pupils with special educational needs—the very last group of pupils whom a civilised society should place at risk.
Earlier, I was mistaken in saying that special schools would become academies in September, which would be much too early. I am glad that that is not the case. However, I still think that the Bill is being taken through its legislative process in haste. Although I now understand that special schools would not have even the permissive right to become academies in September, many issues relating to special educational needs need to be better thought out before such schools are enabled. Perhaps we need to see provisions in the Bill that assure us that all these complex details will be properly worked out before schools for special educational needs can become academies.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I am grateful for the points raised during the debate and for the kind words that many noble Lords have said about my effort to understand these very complex issues—which I have not done fully at all. However, as I said on Monday and am happy to repeat this evening, I cannot see any logical argument why one should not strive for the principle of parity. Whereas I am not able to say to noble Lords that I am able to come up with particular proposals at the moment or to endorse the persuasive arguments made tonight, I have said that I shall come back with proposals on Report.
A number of very persuasive and forceful points have been made, whether they were to do with complaints, funding or transport. I shall reflect on them with my officials. As these issues are more complicated, and as I explained to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, it is the intention that the schools should not convert until the following year, which gives more time to work these things through. I hope noble Lords will find that reassuring.
I do not know whether I should declare an interest for proprietary reasons, but I shall do so anyway: my wife has been a long-time volunteer and instructor for the Riding for the Disabled Association, working with a wide range of children and adults with a range of mental and physical disabilities. I therefore know a little of some of the work that charities and noble Lords do.
Rather than prolong the debate tonight, perhaps I may respond afterwards to all the points that have been made. I simply restate my commitment to reflect on them and to come back with a proposal on Report. I therefore hope that noble Lords will not press their amendments.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response and for again saying that he will come back to this issue on Report. I know that time is tight, but if his amendment could be tabled as soon as possible so that we could see it well beforehand, we could decide what action, if any, we wished to take on Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, we have had an important and wide-ranging discussion and I am grateful for a number of points that have been made. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, for accepting that the Government have sought to be clear in making certain that the existing admissions requirements that apply to maintained schools will apply in the same way to academies. I shall respond to one of her specific questions about reporting on academy admission arrangements. Local authorities have to collect information on academy admission arrangements and report on them to the schools adjudicator. He will then have to report on academy admission arrangements in just the same way as for maintained schools. The Bill does not change that.
I turn to the question raised by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. I am grateful to him for his comments. I know that he brings great experience and sincerity to this work. He was particularly concerned about looked-after children. I can reassure him that academies will continue to be required to give the highest possible priority to looked-after children. The Bill changes nothing and I know how important that is to him. I hope that that reply provides some reassurance.
The Earl of Listowel
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, even at this late hour, on this point. The concern raised with me is that paragraph 2 of the school admissions code reads:
“Where mandatory requirements are imposed by the Code … it is stated that relevant bodies ‘must’ comply with the particular requirement or provision”.
However, the code continues at paragraph 3:
“The Code also includes guidelines which the relevant bodies ‘should’ follow”.
The relevant bodies there are the academies, so they only “should” follow, rather than “must” follow, this prioritising of children in admissions. Perhaps I have misunderstood in reading the code; I would appreciate guidance.
Lord Hill of Oareford
Perhaps I could follow that matter up in writing with the noble Earl outside the Chamber and we can pursue it.
One of the issues concerning admissions and exclusions, as has been explained, is the important principle that academy principals have to be free to manage their schools. Therefore, we believe that all schools, including academies, should have the ability to do that. However, parents also need to have guarantees that their children will be treated fairly, so we will ensure that academies are required, through their funding agreements, to comply with the admissions and appeals codes and with guidance on behaviour and exclusions in just the same way as maintained schools.
I note the remarks made by my noble friend Lord Lucas, endorsed by my noble friend Lady Perry, about banding. As he has conceded, that is not an issue specifically to do with this Bill. I know that he has strong views on it. I need to learn more about it and I would be extremely happy to be educated by my noble friend.
Amendments 28, 50 and 51, 84 and 169 would all require the Secretary of State to ensure that academies complied with the school admissions code as if they were maintained schools. Amendment 84 would require them to run their admissions appeals processes as if they were maintained schools. As I have explained, we believe that we achieve that through their compliance with the admissions code and the admissions appeals code. We will make sure that they have to continue to do that.
Baroness Walmsley
Will it be the Secretary of State who ensures that they do or will it be the YPLA?
Lord Hill of Oareford
I will write to my noble friend about that. The ultimate responsibility is with the Secretary of State. I am not 100 per cent certain whether the YPLA is responsible for enforcing it; I believe that it is, but I will write to confirm that. Equally, on Amendment 85, academies are required by their funding agreements to act in accordance with the law on exclusions and to have regard to the Secretary of State’s guidance on exclusions as if the academy were a maintained school.
My noble friend Lady Walmsley raised one or two other points. As she correctly pointed out, there are two codes. Both codes are applied to academies through their funding agreements and that will continue to be the case. I hope that that provides some reassurance to noble Lords and I invite the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
I am grateful for the clarification from the Minister. This has been a useful debate. However, I will reflect on the issue, because it took some time for us as a country to get a strict admissions code that is, to all intents and purposes, properly enforceable. I would not wish for us to retreat from that in any shape or form. I am not for one moment suggesting that that is what the Government are seeking. However, it might be better—and I know that it would inspire greater confidence—if there could be something about that in the Bill. I know from experience that Governments are always, rightly, reluctant to stick everything into a Bill, but this is such an important issue that I may wish to come back to it on Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Lord Lucas
Academies are to be freed from the national curriculum, but in opposition we were—and, indeed, in my heart, we are—committed to reintroducing some universal entitlements for our pupils that have been dropped in the previous decade or two, notably an entitlement to learn the span of British history and an entitlement to study three sciences. I do not see how those two attitudes match. What requirements will we be able to put on academies to ensure that, where we see the need for a universal entitlement and for some consistency across the school system, we get it, despite the headline that academies do not have to comply with the national curriculum? I beg to move.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, although I will be interested to explore the question of the curriculum with my noble friend in the months ahead—not least in the context of the curriculum review, which the Government are carrying out and which will no doubt form the subject of further legislation—the key point is that academies should have freedom to innovate and to be creative with their curricula, to respond to parental pressure, the needs of the children and the needs of the area. From that point of view, we would not contemplate something more prescriptive for academies, so I hope that my noble friend will withdraw his amendment.
Lord Lucas
That seems rather a thin reply, which does not get to the meat of my question. I shall concentrate on something that I know to be a passion of the Minister’s honourable friend Mr Gibb, a passion that I share. For our children to have a real understanding of British history—not a specified understanding and not a list of things that people have to know—we should say that children should emerge from school with an understanding of the spread and depth of British history as an important part of being a British citizen and of creating British citizens and a unity of purpose and understanding in this country.
Many state schools teach a horrible subject called humanities. It is the only thing that they offer at GCSE. You cannot do geography or history, just this mishmash subject that teaches you nothing in particular. If you do history, you probably do only the great dictators and the Tudors. It has disintegrated so far from what Mr Gibb and I think is right. To say, “Yes, we believe this, but there is no way we are going to apply it to academies”, seems to be missing the point. It is not about schools but about an entitlement for our children and what is right for our society. It is not a big imposition to impose these basic requirements on academies, is it?
Lord Hill of Oareford
As an historian manqué, I could keep the Committee going for an extremely long time talking about my views on what ought to be in the history curriculum and I can see that there is great enthusiasm that I should do that. Medieval history is a subject that I am particularly interested in, as well as modern history and international history. However, I will resist the temptation. We will have to debate further the tension between the desire for politicians to prescribe and the competing instinct, which I have strongly, to let teachers and head teachers run their schools. In the mean time, I urge my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Lucas
I think that I shall be in trouble if I do not, so I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.