Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill (Money)
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
Read Full debateWednesday 28th February 2024
(9 months, 1 week ago)
Commons ChamberCommonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)
I thank the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Northampton North (Sir Michael Ellis) for their contributions. I have heard my right hon. and learned Friend, as I am sure has the ICRC.
The purpose of the Bill is to enable the Government to treat the CPA and the ICRC in a manner comparable to that of an international organisation. My right hon. and learned Friend made some broader comments and, as I say, the Government have heard them and I am sure that the ICRC has heard them.
I thank the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth for his comments, particularly the way in which he, too, recognised and applauded the work of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. Its purpose and role are recognised across the House and around the world. There will be further debate on the Bill in Committee, so I will end my comments there.
Question put and agreed to.
Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
Read Full debateWednesday 6th March 2024
(9 months ago)
Public Bill CommitteesCommonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 6 March 2024 - (6 Mar 2024)
This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Dame Maria Miller
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments, and I recognise his support for all the work that has got us here today.
The Bill was passed unanimously on Second Reading, and I hope the clauses and amendments will continue to have the support of the Government and everybody in this room today. It provides the necessary delegated legislation-making powers for the CPA and the ICRC to be treated in a manner comparable to an international organisation of which the United Kingdom, or His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom, is a member.
Before the Bill, the Government were unable to treat them in that way, because the powers in the International Organisations Act 1968—particularly the powers in section 1—and the International Development Act 2002 are not available in respect of the CPA or the ICRC. That is because neither organisation is an intergovernmental organisation, but instead each has its own unique constitutional arrangements, reflecting its specific international mandate. Therefore, it is necessary to establish a bespoke enabling power to allow the CPA and the ICRC to operate in the UK.
Turning to the provisions in clauses 1 and 3 and the schedule in more detail, clause 1 enables the conferral on the CPA of the legal capacities of a body corporate. Key capacities relevant to the operation of an international organisation in the UK include concluding contracts, acquiring and disposing of property, and instituting and being a party to legal proceedings.
The clause also enables the provision in respect of the CPA of specific privileges and immunities, which will be determined on the basis of the organisation’s functional need and will be specified through an individual arrangement to be agreed upon on completion of the Bill. The clause also enables the provision of specific privileges and immunities in respect of the secretary-general of the CPA. Those are limited to the privileges and immunities set out in part 2 of the schedule.
The second clause in this string is clause 3. This provision is equivalent to section 8 of the International Organisations Act 1968, which allows the Secretary of State to certify questions of fact relating to the status of, or the privileges and immunities conferred on, the organisations. This clause is necessary, as it is intended to assist the courts in establishing the facts relating to the status of persons who may have privileges or immunities.
The third element in this string is the schedule. It is customary practice to grant privileges and immunities to international organisations and related persons. The list of privileges and immunities that may be conferred on the CPA and the ICRC by Order in Council is set out in the schedule and has been informed by the 1968 Act. I say “may” very certainly, because these are things that have to be decided once this paving legislation is in place.
The schedule will allow the Government to agree a framework that is unique and appropriate to the organisations’ unique mandates. Conferral of the privileges and immunities may be subject to specific exceptions in accordance with clause 4(2)(b), while any exemption or relief from a tax or duty may be made subject to arrangements or conditions in accordance with clause 4(2)(c).
The actual suite of privileges and immunities to be accorded, including relevant exceptions and limitations, will be determined on the basis of the functional need of each organisation and will be specified in the Order in Council. I will discuss that further when we come to the next set of provisions, because it is important that it be clear to everybody looking at this debate, which will be a great number of people across the Commonwealth.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)
I am grateful for my right hon. Friend’s leadership on this issue and I am very pleased to be speaking in Committee on this important Bill. As laid out by my right hon. Friend, the UK greatly values its long-standing programme partnership with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and really appreciates the very important work that it does, right across the Commonwealth, to foster inclusive and accountable democracy.
Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate across the Commonwealth and international fora. It will also allow the organisation to participate fully in areas in which it is currently restricted. Therefore I am very pleased to be able to speak in support of clauses 1 and 3 and the schedule; I will just touch on those, if I may.
The powers provided in clause 1 subsections (1) and (2) reflect the constitutional arrangements of the CPA —including its current registration with the Charity Commission for England and Wales—and will facilitate its proposed future operating model. Comparable treatment to an international organisation would be limited to the core international organs of the CPA, such as the secretariat. It is not intended that any privileges, immunities or other facilities are extended to any of the national or subnational branches.
This clause enables conferral on the CPA of the legal capacities of a body corporate. Key capacities relevant to the operation of an international organisation in the UK are to conclude contracts, to acquire and dispose of property, and to institute and be party to legal proceedings. The clause also enables the provision in respect of the CPA of specific privileges and immunities, which will be determined on the basis of the organisation’s functional need and will be specified through an individual arrangement to be agreed upon on completion of the Bill. Clause 1(1)(c) enables the provision of specific privileges and immunities in respect of the secretary-general of the CPA. Those are limited to the privileges and immunities set out in part 2 of the schedule.
The clause provides for the Order in Council to specify certain statutory provisions in relation to international organisations that should apply in relation to the CPA, with any necessary modifications. This provision will ensure that the CPA can be accorded comparable treatment to an international organisation—in particular, where the definition of international organisation in the legislation is limited to intergovernmental organisations.
Theo Clarke (Stafford) (Con)
I welcome this Bill and I agree that it is a cross-party Bill, with support from across the House. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke for introducing it. I recently returned from Sierra Leone as a member of the CPA executive, and it was made clear to me by members of foreign Governments how important this Bill is. I wholeheartedly welcome this change.
Leo Docherty
I wholeheartedly endorse my hon. Friend’s comments.
Touching briefly on clause 3, the Bill will enable the Government to treat the CPA and the ICRC in a manner comparable to that of an international organisation of which the United Kingdom, or His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom, is a member. In keeping with that, this provision is equivalent to section 8 of the International Organisations Act 1968, which allows the Secretary of State to certify questions of fact relating to the status of, or the privileges and immunities conferred on, the organisations.
Clause 3 is therefore necessary, as it is intended to assist the courts in establishing the facts relating to the status of persons who may have privileges or immunities. The legislation is being supported now as compelling business cases have been presented, and parliamentary time and capacity is available.
Before I conclude, let me touch on the schedule. It is customary practice to grant privileges and immunities to international organisations and related persons. The list of privileges and immunities that may be conferred on the CPA and the ICRC by Order in Council is set out in the schedule and has been informed by the 1968 Act. That will allow the Government to agree a framework that is unique and appropriate to the organisations’ unique mandates.
Conferral of the privileges and immunities may be subject to specific exceptions in accordance with clause 4 of the Bill, while any exemption or relief from a tax or duty may be made subject to arrangements or conditions, also in accordance with clause 4. I reiterate the Government’s support for, and agreement with, the clauses and the schedule.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
Does the Minister agree that this Bill creates equal partners in the Commonwealth, rather than the more outdated model where the UK takes the leadership, and does he agree that that is a positive change?
Dame Maria Miller
I thank the Minister for his wholehearted support for this first clause of the Bill and other hon. Members for their contributions.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2
The International Committee of the Red Cross
Leo Docherty
May I commend my right hon. Friend’s words? I will speak briefly to amendments 1 and 2, which are designed to protect information that the ICRC provides in confidence to His Majesty’s Government from being used in UK civil court proceedings. That is necessary, as the withholding from public disclosure of confidential information cannot otherwise be assured. That reflects the ICRC’s standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones.
That principle also underpins the ICRC’s ability to operate in dangerous locations on sensitive issues, engaging with both state and non-state actors. Confidential information related to the ICRC’s sensitive work includes its engagement with conflict parties on international humanitarian law, mandated under the Geneva conventions, and its work with prisoners, detainees and hostages. Disclosure of confidential ICRC information would damage the ICRC’s ability to perform its sensitive functions when negotiating with conflict parties and put its staff and operations at risk.
The Government are already committed to respecting the confidentiality of the ICRC’s information as a matter of policy, and past practice has demonstrated that. This Bill is an opportunity to end any uncertainty about the Government’s position and put that practice on a statutory footing. Without such a provision, the ICRC is likely to restrict the information that it shares with the UK, including information that provides important analysis and intelligence related to UK Government priorities.
The amendments do not therefore provide an absolute or blanket exemption from disclosure requirements for all ICRC communications. Important limitations have been incorporated into the amendment, as my right hon. Friend mentioned. For example, the exemption is limited to information that has been communicated by the ICRC to the UK Government as part of its confidential bilateral dialogue related to the ICRC’s humanitarian activities.
The amendments also engage the right to a fair trial, as was mentioned, under article 6 of the European convention on human rights. The Government consider this provision both necessary and proportionate, and mitigations such as the exclusion for criminal cases mean that I can confirm that the provision may be exercised in compatibility with convention rights.
If I may touch on clause 2, the ICRC is an essential partner for achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives. It has a unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts and has unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations. The ICRC is frequently the only international agency operating at scale in many conflicts. With regard to clause 2 i t is therefore critical, in our judgment, that we enable the ICRC to operate in the UK in accordance with its international mandate, maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence and its working method of confidentiality.
The clause confers on the ICRC the legal capacities of a body corporate. Key capacities relevant to the operation of an international organisation in the UK are to conclude contracts, to acquire and dispose of property and to institute and be party to legal proceedings.
I therefore reiterate our support for amendments 1 and 2.
Amendment 1 agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 4
Orders in Council
Dame Maria Miller
I beg to move amendment 3, clause 4, page 2, line 24, at end insert—
“(1A) Before laying before Parliament a draft of a statutory instrument containing an Order in Council under section 1, the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) the Chair of the United Kingdom Branch, and
(b) the Secretary-General
of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.
(1B) Before laying before Parliament a draft of a statutory instrument containing an Order in Council under section 2, the Secretary of State must consult—
(b) the President, and
(c) the Director-General
of the International Committee of the Red Cross.”
Dame Maria Miller
I stress that amendments 3 and 4 are probing amendments to allow the Minister to provide some assurances, not only to the people in this room, including myself, but to other members of the organisations we are talking about today. It is a long-standing practice that privileges and immunities are conferred by Order in Council, and that is not included in the Bill; this is merely paving legislation to allow that to happen.
The clause provides that any Order in Council made under clauses 1 or 2 is subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure. Statutory instruments that are subject to the draft affirmative procedure require the approval of both Houses of Parliament before they come into effect, in the usual way. The clause also provides further detail on the scope and extent of the delegated legislation-making powers under clauses 1 and 2.
In addition, the clauses provide the enabling power, first, for the Order in Council to specify circumstances where privileges or immunities do not apply, whether because of an exception to those privileges or immunities or because they have been waived by the organisation; and secondly, for the Order in Council to specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State or the Commissioners of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, as the case may be.
I felt it was very important that we had a clear, on the record affirmation from the Government, when they are drawing up these very important subsequent documents for approval by the House, that the appropriate people are involved in those discussions. That is why I have tabled probing amendments 3 and 4.
The effect of amendment 3 is to lay down a formal requirement on the Secretary of State to consult the chair of the UK branch and the secretary-general of the CPA, and the president and the director-general of the ICRC respectively, before finalising the draft Order in Council and laying it before Parliament.
Amendment 4 would require the Secretary of State to lay the draft Order in Council within 14 days of the Act’s coming into force. Perhaps when the Minister responds, he could give some assurances regarding the Government’s intent to involve the individuals named in amendment 3 in the decisions about what is to be laid before Parliament, to ensure that the Bill works exactly in the way the relevant organisations need it to. I am sure that would always be his intention, but it would be helpful if he could put that intention on the record before we finalise proceedings today.
Clause 5 explains that the term “ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, for the avoidance of any doubt. It also ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and ICRC as international organisations to be applied in regard to all relevant legislation, primary and secondary, including devolved legislation. That is important because the Bill gives both the CPA and the ICRC treatment comparable to that of an international organisation, so the organisations need to be recognised in the same way across all relevant legislation.
Last, but by no means least, the provisions in clause 6 extend and apply the Bill to the whole of the UK, as a reserved or excepted matter relating to the conduct of international relations. The Bill will come into force on the day on which it receives Royal Assent.
I hope the Minister will respond on those final clauses and leave me in a position where I can withdraw my two probing amendments.
Leo Docherty
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for introducing the amendments and am happy to give her the assurance that she requires. The FCDO has engaged with the CPA and ICRC throughout the legislative process. The FCDO will consult them both ahead of secondary legislation and work closely with them to agree the arrangements for the appropriate privileges and immunities for each organisation. The FCDO has already committed to lay the draft Order in Council as soon as possible. His Majesty’s Government does not, therefore, think the amendments are necessary, and I ask my right hon. Friend to withdraw them.
On clause 4, it has of course been long-standing practice that privileges and immunities are conferred by Order in Council. The clause provides that any Order in Council made under clauses 1 or 2 is subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure. Statutory instruments that are subject to that procedure require the approval of both Houses of Parliament before they may have effect, as we all know.
The clause also provides further detail regarding the scope and extent of the delegated legislation-making power under clauses 1 and 2. In particular, an Order in Council made under the Bill
“may make different provision for different cases and for different persons”,
and
“may contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provision.”
In addition, the clause provides the enabling power for two important aspects that are fundamental to the operation and management of privileges and immunities in respect of an international organisation. First, the Order in Council may specify circumstances in which privileges or immunities do not apply, whether because of an exception to those privileges or immunities or because they have been waived by the organisation.
Secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State or the commissioners of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. This will facilitate the application to the organisations of the existing administrative schemes and processes in respect of international organisations that are administered by, among others, the FCDO and HMRC.
Clause 5, on interpretation, explains that the term “ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as stated in clause 2. It also ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and ICRC as international organisations to be applied in regard to all relevant legislation, primary and secondary, including the devolved Administrations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, whenever such legislation is made. This is important because the Bill gives both the CPA and the ICRC treatment comparable to that of an international organisation; therefore, the organisations need to be recognised in the same way across all relevant legislation.
Under clause 6, the Bill’s provisions will extend and apply to the whole of the UK as a reserved or accepted matter relating to the conduct of international relations, and the Bill will come into force on the day on which it receives Royal Assent.
In conclusion, I commend the contribution of my right hon. Friend in a spirit of gratitude.
Dame Maria Miller
I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the Minister’s comments. I am reassured that the Government intend to fully involve the organisations in the drawing up of secondary legislation. It is an obvious thing to say, but it is good to hear the Minister put that on the record. With that in mind and having received those assurances, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment made: 2, in clause 4, page 2, line 27, leave out “or privilege” and insert “, privilege or exemption”.—(Dame Maria Miller.)
This amendment is consequential on Amendment 1 and ensures that an exemption conferred by an Order under clause 2(1)(e) can be subject to exceptions set out in the Order.
Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 5 and 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule agreed to.
Bill, as amended, to be reported.
Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
Read Full debateFriday 26th April 2024
(7 months, 1 week ago)
Commons ChamberCommonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 6 March 2024 - (6 Mar 2024)
This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Edward Argar)
It is a genuine pleasure to speak at the Dispatch Box on behalf of my right hon. Friend the Deputy Foreign Secretary, and it is a pleasure for various reasons. I suspect this will be one of my least challenging appearances at the Dispatch Box, because my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) has garnered so much support for these measures across the House and in Government.
It is a pleasure to appear opposite, and respond to once again, the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin), who shadowed me in my role before she was moved to a different team. It is also important to put on record our gratitude, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) did. We are grateful to her, to my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset (Mr Liddell-Grainger) for his work, to Stephen Twigg and his staff, to Mr Speaker, and indeed to the Comptroller of His Majesty’s Household, my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris), who with the Bill, as with many others, has done so much as the Whip to ensure that it has progressed smoothly and is—hopefully —within touching distance of becoming law.
Chris Elmore
I will pay my own tribute to the Comptroller of His Majesty’s Household later, when we come to my Bill. On private Member’ Bills, this shows the House at its best. I think these measures have been debated in a ten-minute rule Bill and a previous private Member’s Bill, and I infer from the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) that this was a presentation Bill. That shows the importance of the work of the House on a sitting Friday to push through to the other place such legislation, which is so important internationally to so many of our Commonwealth partners, as well as, obviously, the Red Cross.
Edward Argar
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I often say when I am talking to schools or more broadly in my constituency—I suspect he does so in his—that if our electorate want to see the House at its best, they should watch the Chamber on a sitting Friday when we are debating private Member’ Bills: there is often much cross-party co-operation and enlightening debate. One goes away not only having hopefully moved things forward and achieved something, but having learned something.
Before I turn to the substance of the Bill, I have a couple of other points to make. I turn briefly to the suggestion made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke and my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) about, I think, the Canadian Parliament—
Edward Argar
I am sorry; the New Zealand Parliament, which gave the power to the Speaker or the Chair that if a Minister had not been deemed by the Chair to have given a sufficiently accurate or appropriate answer to a question, they could have the question re-put to the Minister. I gently say to my right hon. Friend that while that is an interesting suggestion, it would be entirely redundant in this place, given how Ministers always answer directly the question posed to them as fully and helpfully as they can.
The other reason it is a genuine pleasure to be here is that the Bill has been brought forward by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke. The hon. Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) highlighted that she had been forcefully pushing this issue to a conclusion. I must say that, having had the pleasure of working with her on various amendments to legislation in the past, I have always found it wise to agree with her. I am therefore pleased to confirm the Government’s support for the Bill. It is wise to agree with her, not least because generally she is right in the points she is making, as I know from experience. So it is a genuine pleasure to speak on her Bill on this occasion. I recognise in doing so her work as chair of the CPA as well as her work with the Westminster Foundation for Democracy and the huge value that that adds.
This is a hugely important Bill, reflecting on two important organisations. In what can appear to be a fractured and increasingly dangerous world, it is important that we remember and reinforce the role of democracy as a bulwark against authoritarianism and totalitarianism, and indeed the conflicts that can often flow from those.
In respect of the CPA, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack Brereton) set out clearly the importance of its work to promote parliamentary democracy and good government through a range of activities and in a range of forums. It is open and wide-ranging in its promotion of democracy within the Commonwealth context. It is non-partisan and non-prescriptive. It does a huge amount of work to capture the best of parliamentary democracy across the Commonwealth, propagate it and reinforce it.
It is also important, as the shadow Minister did, to recognise the importance of the Commonwealth in that context. She rightly highlighted its 75th anniversary. It is an institution of enduring success and enduring value. We can genuinely characterise it as the Commonwealth family of nations, because we do view all the other members of the Commonwealth as family, as I hope they would view us.
The ICRC was founded 160 years ago. It is
“an impartial, neutral and independent organisation whose exclusively humanitarian mission is to protect the lives and dignity of victims of armed conflict and other situations of violence and to provide them with assistance.”
That is from the ICRC mandate. Its unique international humanitarian mandate and mission have been formally recognised, as the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Cardiff North highlighted, by states in the Geneva conventions and their additional protocols. This organisation has unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts and has unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations. It is frequently the only agency operating at scale in many conflicts. As we look around the world at the conflicts raging, its work has never been more important.
It is a pleasure to confirm the Government’s full support for the Bill and to thank those Members who have contributed today. As set out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, the Bill will enable the Government to treat the CPA and ICRC in a manner genuinely comparable to that of an international organisation of which the UK or His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom are a member.
The UK has, as I have highlighted, a huge and long-standing partnership with the CPA, and we recognise the work it does. The UK also views the ICRC as an essential partner for achieving our global humanitarian objectives, with the organisation having unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts and unparalleled access. It also operates in some of the most challenging situations that anyone could face. Its specialised role in engaging with all arms bearers, including the growing number of non-state armed groups, is coupled with its direct delivery of a comprehensive range of integrated humanitarian assistance and protection programmes.
Treatment as an international organisation will allow both the CPA and the ICRC to deliver their objectives while operating in the UK. In the case of the CPA, it will facilitate the organisation to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora, including in areas where it is currently restricted by its charitable status. While it is not possible under the International Organisations Act 1968, as was highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster, to accord it the privileges and status it needs, this legislation fills that gap.
For the ICRC, treatment as an international organisation will critically enable it to operate in the UK in accordance with its international mandate, maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence and its standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones. The public disclosure of information that the ICRC obtains from confidential dialogue with conflict parties is likely to put that at risk. It is also a principle that underpins its ability to operate in dangerous locations on sensitive issues, engaging with state and non-state actors. The Bill has therefore been amended to include a provision for the protection of certain information related to the ICRC’s sensitive work that it has provided in confidence to His Majesty’s Government, to stop it being used in court proceedings, except for criminal proceedings. The Government consider this provision necessary, but proportionate.
Treatment as an international organisation includes the provision of privileges and immunities necessary to meet the functional needs of the CPA and ICRC in the UK. In providing these privileges and immunities, we will strengthen our partnerships with both the CPA and ICRC respectively. It will enable these two key partners to better deliver their objectives.
The list of privileges and immunities that might be conferred on the CPA and ICRC have been informed by the 1968 Act. That will allow the Government to agree a framework that is unique and appropriate to each organisation’s unique mandate. The actual suite of privileges and immunities to be accorded, including relevant exceptions and limitations, will be determined based on the functional need of each organisation and will be specified in secondary legislation and Order in Council. For example, the arrangements will make it clear, as is standard practice, that there will be no immunity from legal suit in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle.
The financial implications of the Bill are minimal, and there will be little or no loss of revenue as a result of the fiscal exemptions or relief, which again will be granted by delegated legislation through the provisions in the Bill. As is standard practice for international organisations, certain taxes will be refunded in accordance with the separate arrangements between the Government and the CPA and ICRC, respectively. In response to a point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke—the shadow Minister kindly gave me advance warning that she would also raise it in her speech—I am happy to reconfirm that the specific arrangements will be drawn up in active consultation with the CPA and with the ICRC, respectively.
Dame Maria Miller
I realise that the Minister is making a Third Reading speech so it is important not to go into detail, but this element was introduced in Committee, and we did not have the advantage of a Report stage. I would like to press the Government on this particular point, because the privileges and immunities section of the Bill is clearly set out but it is important that those affected by the Bill understand that those privileges and immunities are yet to be agreed with the Government. It is important that they are agreed well in advance of being laid before Parliament, so that everybody can be sighted on what they mean in practice.
Edward Argar
As ever, my right hon. Friend is right. Therefore, subject to the passage of this legislation and prior to those regulations being introduced, until they come into force, they do not come into force. We will work closely with those organisations so that when those regulations are laid and approved, hopefully there will be no surprises in them because they will have worked collaboratively with us to draw them up.
The arrangements will detail the day-to-day management of the privileges and immunities granted to both organisations on a functional need basis, and other facilities. Furthermore, administration of the arrangements will be resourced from the existing resources responsible for managing privileges and immunities with international organisations in the UK.
The Bill strengthens our commitment to the work of the Commonwealth and our support of democratic legislators through our work with the CPA. It will also support the FCDO’s global humanitarian objectives, ensuring that the UK remains at the heart of an unrivalled global network for economic, diplomatic and security partnerships through our work with the ICRC.
Hon. Members raised a couple of points, which I will turn to before concluding. I was grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) for a wide ranging, informative and typically well-informed contribution. Craving your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I take just a minute, as I am conscious that my hon. Friend has announced that she will not seek re-election at the next general election, and who knows whether I will get another opportunity at the Dispatch Box? Let me put on record my gratitude to her for everything she has done. She and I served together as fellow ward councillors on Westminster City Council before I was elected to this place and she was subsequently elected. She is a fierce champion for what she believes to be right for her constituents and her community, and she has demonstrated that as a councillor and leader of the council and now as a Member of Parliament. She will be hugely missed by her constituents and by this House.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn (Sara Britcliffe) asked what support His Majesty’s Government will give, beyond this legislation, to both the organisations that we are debating. His Majesty’s Government give the ICRC £48 million of core funding annually, and up to £100 million in bilateral donations. We have a long-standing and robust relationship with the ICRC and a track record of supporting it. My understanding is that we fund CPA International to the tune of £196,000, and we give CPA UK £235,000. We support them through not only this legislation and what we say in this House but tangible financial support.
In an ever more challenging global context, His Majesty’s Government and my right hon. Friend the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Secretary remain committed to working with and supporting the work of the CPA and the ICRC. This Bill gives both organisations the status in legislation that they need and deserve to continue their international operations without impediment; it reflects our commitment. I once again congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke. The Government continue to support the Bill, and I commend it to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
With the leave of the House, I call Dame Maria Miller to wind up the debate.
Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
Read Full debateFriday 17th May 2024
(6 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberCommonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 6 March 2024 - (6 Mar 2024)
This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill 2023-24 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
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The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I join all noble Lords in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, for tabling the Bill and for her important opening remarks in detailing the various provisions. Like others, I also thank my right honourable friend the Member for Basingstoke, Dame Maria Miller, for her dedicated work as chair of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, the UK’s branch, and for her tireless work to ensure the Bill’s passage through the other place.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about the second attempt; I have been Commonwealth Minister for seven years, and I look to my dear friends, my noble friends Lady Anelay and Lord Howell, who have also advocated for this. They say that persistence pays, and I am pleased to say that the Bill carries the Government’s full support. We have worked closely with Dame Maria Miller to ensure the passage of the Bill to where we are today.
Before I go any further, I, like others, turn to the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, first thanking him for his guidance and insights. I am grateful to his noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, who brought to my attention some of the noble Earl’s notable insights and said that the first question he asked here as an Earl and a hereditary Peer—this is quite a tribute to him—was about legroom on public transport. As a former Transport Minister, I am told that we are very much seized of that issue even today. His final question was, aptly, on South Sudan. That shows the depth and the breadth of the consistent insights that he has brought to debates across development policy and foreign affairs.
Certainly, as a Government Minister for Foreign Affairs I have sought, I hope to the best degree possible, to answer the questions he has posed to me in his very courteous way. He has brought many insights, as we have heard, such as presenting the challenges on the development portfolio. I am sure I speak for all noble Lords when I say, as a Government Minister who has often been on the receiving end of the noble Earl’s insightful but quite direct challenges, that we have sought to always develop a relationship based on and steeped in respect. He has articulated all his contributions in that way, and I am truly grateful. I join other noble Lords, including my noble friend Lady Bottomley, in saying that his wide-ranging experience will be sorely missed in your Lordships’ House.
I am pleased that the Bill enjoys cross-party support. Indeed, it is the second Private Member’s Bill that we are discussing this morning that carries support across your Lordships’ House. I am grateful for the advocacy of many across both Houses, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said. I join him in acknowledging and paying tribute to Stephen Twigg. I enjoy a good relationship with Stephen and know that he has been a powerful advocate, as has my noble friend Lord Haselhurst. I was looking through the number of people who have raised this issue over the years, and I pay tribute collectively to them all.
As the Minister of State for the Commonwealth, I assure noble Lords that we will continue to work with both the ICRC and the CPA to ensure the Bill’s safe and speedy passage. It is hugely important. Both key organisations have waited for this status for a long time, and it comes at a particularly crucial time for both the CPA and the ICRC.
The ICRC, as my noble friend Lady Anelay once again reminded us, has been at the centre of international humanitarian work in recent years. As we look at granting this status to the ICRC, with wars raging in Ukraine and the Middle East, it is perhaps an entirely appropriate time to ensure that it continues its important work.
Equally, as other noble Lords said, in March we celebrated the 75th anniversary of the creation of the modern Commonwealth. We continue to work together in partnership with our Commonwealth family on vital issues such as empowering women and girls, bolstering the rule of law and good governance, and protecting the freedom of the media. Both my noble friend Lord Haselhurst and the great advocate for the Commonwealth, my noble friend Lord Howell, reminded us of this. Indeed, my own engagements earlier this week included a discussion yesterday with His Majesty on our planning for CHOGM and his focus on small island states, and earlier in the week a logistical discussion with the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth on planning for the CHOGM in Samoa. So, again, this is an entirely appropriate time for us to move forward with the Bill.
The UK values its partnership with the CPA and is proud to support work being done by the CPA and its regional branch, CPA UK. This includes developing benchmarks as indicators of parliamentary democracy and addressing modern slavery in supply chains and gender-based violence with parliaments and parliamentarians across the Commonwealth. The noble Lord, St John of Bletso, reminded us of the important work of parliamentarians, as did others.
The organisation’s current status as a charity has meant that the CPA has been prevented from operating fully across the Commonwealth and international fora. As Minister for the Commonwealth, I know how highly valued this organisation is. The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, drew on her wide experience of the important role of the CPA, as did the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Leong. I agree with all of them, particularly on the point about the rich diversity of parliamentarians, in terms of both age and insight, that was provided when we hosted the CHOGM summit. Having the CPA meeting in advance of CHOGM was a valuable tool; we have shared that experience with subsequent hosts, including Rwanda.
Without this legislation, there would remain a high possibility that the CPA would look to relocate its headquarters outside the UK, an outcome that I assure noble Lords neither I nor the Foreign Secretary—indeed, no one—would like to see happen. That is why the UK has supported this Bill coming forward.
As my noble friend Lady Anelay reminded us, the UK has also supported the ICRC’s work over many years. I join her in paying tribute to Peter Maurer, its previous president; I also pay tribute to Mirjana Egger, who is doing a wonderful job at the helm of this organisation at a very challenging time. The UK greatly supports the ICRC’s work. It is an essential partner for achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives, having a unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts and unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations. Its specialised role in engaging with all arms bearers, including the growing number of non-state armed groups, is coupled with its direct delivery of a comprehensive range of integrated humanitarian assistance and protection programmes. It is therefore critical, as the noble Lord, Lord Leong, reminded us, to give the ICRC its correct status in UK legislation and to work together in order to deliver its objectives.
That is why this Bill and the provisions contained in it are so important. They enable the Government to treat the CPA and the ICRC in a manner comparable to that of an international organisation of which the United Kingdom, or His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom, is a member. By creating through an Order in Council the power to give both organisations the legal capacity of a body corporate, as well as specific privileges and immunities, the Bill will support the functional needs of the CPA and the ICRC, including on their property, information and certain personnel.
The list of privileges and immunities that may be conferred on the CPA and the ICRC has been informed by the International Organisations Act 1968. This will allow the Government to agree a framework that is appropriate to each organisation’s unique mandate. The actual suite of privileges and immunities to be accorded, including relevant exemptions and limitations, will be determined by the functional needs of each organisation and will be specified in the Order in Council, as noble Lords mentioned. For example, as is standard practice, the arrangements will make clear that there will be no immunity from a legal suit in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle.
It would be remiss of me not to mention something that my noble friend Lady Anelay and the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, mentioned: the confidentiality provision in the Bill. It provides for the protection of certain information related to the ICRC’s sensitive work that it has provided to His Majesty’s Government in confidence. For example, it is protected from being disclosed in UK court proceedings—except criminal proceedings, as my noble friend said.
This provision reflects the ICRC’s standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones. The public disclosure of information that the ICRC obtains from confidential dialogue with conflict parties is likely to put this at risk. I have seen that directly in current conflicts and, indeed, through my direct engagement with the ICRC. It is important that this power is granted.
This is also a principle that underpins the ICRC’s ability to operate in dangerous locations on sensitive issues, engaging both with states and, importantly, with non-state actors. Indeed, as my right honourable friend the Member for Basingstoke, Dame Maria Miller, noted in Committee:
“There is a real risk and concern about ICRC information being used in legal proceedings—over the past 15 years, the ICRC’s confidentiality has been challenged some 20 times in the UK”.—[Official Report, Commons, 26/4/24; col. 1220.]
The Government therefore consider that this confidentiality provision is both necessary and proportionate.
The financial implications of the Bill are minimal. There will be little or no loss of revenue as a result of the fiscal exemptions or reliefs, which will be granted by delegated legislation through the provisions in the Bill. Refunds of certain taxes will be made in accordance with the separate arrangements between the Government and the CPA and the ICRC respectively, as is standard for international organisations. Furthermore, administration of the arrangements will be resourced from the existing resources responsible for managing privileges and immunities with international organisations in the United Kingdom.
I assure noble Lords, in particular the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, that the FCDO will continue to consult both organisations ahead of secondary legislation. On the proposals for those statutory instruments, the Government propose that the procedure applicable to any statutory instrument made under this delegated power should be the draft affirmative procedure. I hope that this reassures the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Verdirame, on how scrutiny of this important Bill will continue. Today’s contributions have demonstrably shown that the Bill is warmly welcomed across your Lordships’ House.
We will work closely with both organisations on a functional need basis in terms of specific arrangements detailing the day-to-day management of the privileges and immunities granted to them and other facilities. As I have already said, the FCDO has also committed to laying the draft Order in Council as soon as possible.
I conclude by thanking all noble Lords for their contributions. This Bill is an important step forward. It carries cross-party support; I pay tribute to all of the Members who, over many years, have made invaluable contributions to get us to this point in time. I again pay tribute to my dear friend, the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, for her stewardship and advocacy on this issue. It is important that the correct status in UK legislation is given to both organisations so that they can continue their vital international operations without restriction. This Bill reflects the Government’s strong commitment to the Commonwealth, which is extremely important in this CHOGM year, and our support of democratic legislators through our work with the CPA. It also supports our global humanitarian objectives through our work with the ICRC.
In commending this Bill to the House—I look forward to working with noble Lords on its speedy passage—I once again pay tribute to the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, for his insights. He will be missed but, as he has demonstrated again today, he leaves appropriate challenges for the Government and for whoever holds the position that I currently hold in the months and years to come. I am sure that, now and again, he will remind us with a little note—as he often does for me, saying, “Tariq, you may need to look at this one”. We are fully supportive, and I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza.