EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Trimble(3 years, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Trimble (Con)
My Lords, I want to exploit my position here at the moment, standing right behind the Minister. He opened the debate by referring to some of the major achievements that have been made, in particular that the European Court of Justice no longer applies in Great Britain, and other related matters. I am sure the noble Lord will realise that I could, and perhaps should, exploit my position here by saying that what the Minister said is not true. The ECJ still operates within the United Kingdom. It operates with regard to Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is still governed by Europe. This is not what we fought for. This is not what we voted for. It could be tolerated as something for the short term that will be dealt with speedily, but there is no sign of that happening. This process continues.
The man in the street in Northern Ireland does not understand what is going on, does not know is going on, because very little information seeps through. That should be addressed rapidly. I ask the Government to find ways of communicating with the people of Northern Ireland through their elected representatives and those of us who are here. I would like to know what happens in the various meetings. People come out and say that they have achieved something, but they do not explain what they have achieved. I would like to know that.
Without information coming through, people will look, for example, at the problems that some of the supermarkets have had recently: they have not got the material that they want to come through and in some cases have been quite embarrassed. There is also concern over the line that is basically driven down the Irish Sea. It is there, despite assurances being given to us several times that that was not going to happen. It has happened.
I want to pick on just three matters, one of which is hugely important, and that is the question of legislation in Northern Ireland. Where will that come from? At the moment, it will come from Brussels, not from this House or the other place. Legislation for Northern Ireland is done by Europe, and will continue to be done by Europe. I have heard Ministers say that if any legislation comes through, they will not do anything but just let it go through automatically.
I have two specific questions to ask the Minister—
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am sorry, but the time is up for my noble friend. It is well over two minutes.
Northern Ireland: Commission for Victims and Survivors
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Trimble
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I understand that the general theme from the noble Lord is focused on justice but we must be clear that, with the passage of time—he will know this—the number of convictions flowing from any investigative process is likely to be low. That is why, on the back of the consultation, we think that it is right to move forward, focusing on information recovery and reconciliation, which is a vital part of it.
Lord Trimble (Con)
My Lords, these comments from other Members are what one would want to hear, in many respects, but we must remember that we are dealing here with the republican movement. I use that term to underline the extent to which and way in which it tries to present itself as something innocuous, wanting to rewrite the past—or, if it cannot do that, pretend or create a situation in which blame can be put on the security forces that have worked so hard over the years. We need to move forward on that carefully and understand the full nature of what we are dealing with.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
That allows me to say, in response to my noble friend’s question, that the focus is on looking ahead, not back, and on information recovery and reconciliation. Those two things should be at the heart of the revised legacy system, not looking back.
Northern Ireland: Paramilitary Groups
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Trimble
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I take note of the noble Lord’s point. To echo his thoughts, I say that a free, independent media is a cornerstone of our democracy. It is vital that the media and elected representatives can continue their work without the fear of attack or threat.
Lord Trimble (Con) [V]
My Lords, I suggest to the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that when the Secretary of State next meets representatives of the republican movement he could remind them that they were admitted into the talks process only when they committed themselves to democratic and peaceful means. That commitment has somewhat frayed after senior members of the republican movement have tried to justify the terrorist campaign. We have to take that seriously. It reminds me of how we made the Belfast agreement—to which, incidentally, the recent actions of the republicans have been contrary. We did so by voting. All the parties voted for it, and then Sinn Féin did not support the agreement. That tells you something about the character of the organisation. I quote from somewhere else: the maintenance of peace requires constant vigilance.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, these are complex issues, which demand a long-term, thoughtful approach. The UK and Irish Governments, and each of the parties in the Northern Ireland Executive, including Sinn Féin, made a clear commitment to tackle paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland in the New Decade, New Approach agreement. The paramilitary crime task force has also reported a number of successful investigations into and disruptions of the activities of republican paramilitary groups.