Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions) Act 2018

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Hain

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I can understand the frustration expressed by the noble and right reverend Lord, and I am sure that he expresses it on behalf of the whole of Northern Ireland and indeed this side of the Irish Sea. We all want to make progress. However, as I say, today there is a chink of light. The Secretary of State has been clear with the political parties and the House that she has decided to extend the period for Executive formation only because she has seen some clear progress towards restoring devolution. So the willingness is there, and the Secretary of State’s engagement with the parties over the last weeks have given her enough reassurance that we can see productive talks going forward.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I associate myself with every word that my noble friend Lord Murphy of Torfaen said, and with the comments of the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames. This is a dire and serious situation, from the very serious problem of waiting lists for children in the National Health Service in Northern Ireland, right the way through to the lack of a functioning Assembly and Executive, at a time of great crisis in Northern Ireland. It is probably the most serious crisis it has faced in many a long year—and that is saying something.

I want to ask specifically about the date of 25 August that I think the Minister mentioned. Parliament will not be sitting, so I find it an odd date. I stress to the Minister, and through him to the Government and the Prime Minister, that, as many of us have said, including my noble friend Lord Murphy of Torfaen, this problem will not be cracked without the Prime Minister’s personal engagement, not just flying in for an odd hour here or there but convening people together in a conference—if necessary, going overnight, and again—until the problem is cracked. There are solutions to these issues of the Irish language and other questions; attention needs to be focused in a concentrated and personal way, and I am afraid that it is not.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I know that the Secretary of State and the Government are very aware of the date of 25 August, which the noble Lord raised. We want to give the fullest possible time for the talks to have the best chance of success. The Secretary of State is aware of that time, and it is during the Recess, but there will be every chance for the next stages to happen well in advance of that, so that is fine. On the Prime Minister’s role, it must be made absolutely clear again that she is keeping in very close contact with what is going on and, as I said earlier, she has been talking regularly to all five main parties.

Trade Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Hain

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 23rd January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain]

I apologise for prolonging this discussion. I urge the Government to reflect on this: given the trouble that we have already run into in this process with the devolved Administrations, if there were a process where these regulations automatically had to come under the umbrella—as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, implies and which I agree with—that would impose a discipline on all the parties concerned to use that process to resolve any common issues that are outstanding. It is an established process, but it has not really been used. In the post-Brexit situation, which I think will be a nightmare, these procedures will be needed even more to ensure the constitutional stability, success and indeed viability, given what is going on in Scotland and Northern Ireland over Brexit, of the whole of the union.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, the Committee will notice that we have another change of driver—or perhaps a navigator having temporary control of the wheel. If I read the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord Purvis, correctly, the intention behind the amendments is to ensure that the voices of the devolved Governments are heard in relation to trade agreements. That is something that the UK Government entirely support. Indeed, the Department for International Trade is in discussion with the devolved Administrations on their role in future trade agreements.

To give a little more information to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, the UK Government are committed to working closely with the devolved Administrations to deliver a future trade policy that works for the whole of the UK. But it is important that we do this within the context of the current constitutional make-up of the UK, while acknowledging that international trade policy is a reserved matter. To go further, we are currently having detailed discussions with the devolved Administrations at official level on their role in future trade arrangements, with the aim of agreeing new working arrangements before EU exit. In fact, we are continuing this engagement later this week.

I am happy to provide assurance to the House that our clear intention is that there will be a formal and regular intergovernmental ministerial forum to consider future trade agreements. The devolved Administrations already participate in other ministerial forums, such as those for EU negotiations. Frequency and any terms of reference are subject to further discussions and agreement with the devolved Administrations. However, we expect the forum to include our Minister for Trade Policy and his or her counterparts in the devolved Administrations.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked some questions on this point. The UK Government view securing an agreement with all the devolved Administrations as the best possible scenario, and it is the one that we will continue to work towards. We are committed to securing LCMs for the Trade Bill and have worked closely with the devolved Administrations to understand and respond to their concerns. As a result, we have made amendments to the Bill that answer many of those concerns.

The requirement for Ministers of devolved Administrations to seek the consent of the UK Government when making regulations that come into effect before exit day, or that relate to quota arrangements, has changed to a requirement to consult, of which I suspect the noble Lord will be aware. We will continue to respect the devolution settlements as they relate to trade agreement continuity and future FTAs. We will not normally legislate in areas of devolved competence without the consent of the devolved Administrations, and certainly not without first consulting them.

The amendment, however, would apply to existing trade agreements only and is, in this context, not proportionate. Clause 2 will be used only to ensure the continuity of existing trade agreements that are already in force. It will not be used for future trade agreements. Therefore, Amendment 17 would add risk to the swift and timely rollover of existing trade agreements. Given that these agreements are or will be already in force and that the purpose is to ensure continuity, the amendment is, at best, disproportionate and could mean that we were unable to deliver crucial continuity for businesses and consumers throughout the United Kingdom. For that reason, the Government cannot support Amendment 17. I hope that I have provided sufficient assurances on our intentions for engagement with the devolved Administrations in trade agreements.