Ukraine Refugee Visas
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs(2 years, 8 months ago)
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Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
My Lords, before we move on to the second UQ, I urge noble Lords to keep their questions very succinct and short—ideally just one question, possibly two—then hopefully my noble friend will be able to keep his answers short as well. The more Peers who can get in on this important subject, the better.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister answering read the whole Statement, which is quite proper, but it took up half the time. Surely that should not eat into our time.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
Could I possibly put the noble Lord right? The Clock started from nought after the Statement was read, so there was a full 10 minutes after the Statement was read.
Legacy of Northern Ireland’s Past
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I would like to correct the noble Baroness: this is not an amnesty, and we never said that it was or would be an amnesty; it is a statute of limitation. There is a difference, which is that there will be no pardons. However, we must be clear that, with the passage of time, the number of convictions flowing from any investigative process is likely to be extremely low, as I said earlier. If our focus is criminal justice, we will fail almost every family.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, there is an equivalence in the pain that all victims feel. I do not see how the Government are going to move forward unless there is a drastic change in their proposals. Do the Government have any further plans to consult the community and to amend their proposals so that there is some element of acceptance for what is, at the moment, a unanimous view against the Government’s idea?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I find the noble Lord’s comments quite helpful, because they allow me to say again that this is a consultative process and that we will be listening to views expressed. As I said earlier, for some, what we are proposing may—and will—be very difficult to accept. We recognise that these issues are highly complex, sensitive and steeped in—how shall I put it?—a dark history, and therefore will be, as they have been for decades, hard to address. I acknowledge the noble Lord’s point about the pain of all victims.
Ballymurphy Inquest Findings
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I can understand that the noble Baroness would like me to give a timeline today. I am unable to do that, but I can reassure her that, despite it being 50 years ago that the awful events in Ballymurphy took place, we pledged in the recent Queen’s Speech to bring forward details regarding legacy in this session.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
Like my noble friend Lord Murphy and other Members of the House, I met the Ballymurphy families years ago. I was impressed by their determination in the face of intolerable grief and sadness. What is puzzling is why the Prime Minister did not himself meet the Ballymurphy families. Surely the right thing would be not to leave it to other Ministers but to go to Belfast, meet the families in person and express his apologies face to face.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
As I said earlier, the Prime Minister has written to the Ballymurphy families to apologise directly for the events that unfolded between 9 and 11 August 1971, and the Secretary of State also apologised as part of his Statement to the Commons on 13 May. Both did so on behalf of the UK Government and I repeat that apology today. But whatever the nature of the apology, it can do nothing either to reduce the suffering that the families have endured or to lessen the sincerity of our sorrow.
Northern Ireland: Violence
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
Notwithstanding the barking in the background of the noble and right reverend Lord’s call, it was a serious question. He is absolutely right: as well as the work that my right honourable friend in the other place is doing with community leaders, measured language is very important. We do not want to see again these disgraceful scenes and the reckless, dangerous and criminal behaviour on the streets. Of course, this week’s events do not reflect the true spirit of Northern Ireland—the creativity, the optimism, and the determination never to return to the conflict and division of the past.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, does the Minister agree that at least some people in Northern Ireland believe that the British Government are not as interested in what is going on there as previous British Governments used to be? Furthermore—[Inaudible]—the Government made repeated statements that the protocol—[Inaudible] —not impose any constraint. The Government have to think harder about how we treat the people of Northern Ireland—[Inaudible]—honestly and properly.
Northern Ireland: Victims’ Payment Scheme
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs(3 years, 10 months ago)
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Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I can only repeat to my noble friend that, as he well knows, it is up to the Northern Ireland Executive to take this forward. The Secretary of State is, and always has been, firmly committed to seeing the introduction of this scheme and payments being made to victims who have waited far too long, as I have said. We will continue to prioritise the Executive’s delivery of them. Finally, I hope I have given reassurance that Naomi Long and her team are working hard and fast and are making very good progress.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that there is an important vacancy, namely that of the Victims Commissioner for Northern Ireland, so there is nobody to speak out on behalf of victims or to apply pressure to the Executive or whoever is holding this up? What will the Minister do to ensure that the Victims Commissioner is appointed as soon as possible?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am aware that a Victims Commissioner has not yet been appointed. That process is under way, but I reassure the noble Lord that that is not delaying any process to pay out money to victims.
Patrick Finucane: Supreme Court Judgment
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
Indeed. The noble Lord read out, powerfully, a list of not only those who were caught up in the Troubles but those who were murdered. This is exactly what we want to do in looking forward and finding solutions. Those solutions have to deliver for victims, whose families need to find out what happened to the loved ones whom they lost during the Troubles. I say again that we are committed to bringing forward legislation that focuses on reconciliation, delivers for the victims, as I have said, and ends the cycle of reinvestigations into the Troubles in Northern Ireland that has failed victims and veterans alike. We need to look forward.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, of course every murder is to be condemned, whenever it happened, and I share the concern that the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, expressed about the horrible murders that he mentioned. But before us is the issue of justice and decency for the Finucane family. The Minister said that the PSNI was one way forward and that the police ombudsman was the other way forward. Is he aware that the chief constable said that there were no new lines of inquiry and that the police were reluctant to be involved because they would not be seen as independent in this matter? For all the good work that the police ombudsman does, she does not have the resources for the sort of full public inquiry that the Finucane family is asking for and which I think would be the right way forward in this case.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am certainly aware of that element in the statement from the PSNI. Perhaps I may say two things. First, we are adamant that the way forward is to allow the PSNI review process to run its course. Secondly, I think that the noble Lord will be aware that the chief constable has said that, in order to be quite clear that the review is independent, it is likely that an independent force, beyond him, will be asked to take this forward. It is also important to say that the indications are that the PSNI review will start very soon in the new year, although it is up to the PSNI to decide on all other aspects, including the timings of the review.
Northern Ireland: Commission for Victims and Survivors
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
Indeed, the noble Baroness is right. She will know that legacy is one of the most complex, sensitive and profoundly important issues for the people of Northern Ireland, so it is important that the Government get it right. While progress on this has, like other priorities, been affected by the challenging wider circumstances of the past few months, I can assure the noble Baroness that the Government are moving as quickly as they can.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that, for the families of victims, closure is a fundamental right, and waiting and waiting is just not acceptable. Can he say a little more about the proposed legislation to give effect to the Stormont House agreement? When will it be forthcoming? Does he realise that it is urgent, and that people are waiting anxiously for progress?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I can understand the noble Lord’s interest and frustration. I am unable to give him a timetable, but I give further reassurance that we are committed to bringing forward legislation that focuses on reconciliation, delivers for victims and ends the cycle of reinvestigations into the Troubles in Northern Ireland. This is on the back of the consultation that he will know about.
United Kingdom Government-Northern Ireland Executive Joint Board
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I think I picked up most of what the noble Baroness said. I know that some information has come out from the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. One recommendation was for an annual report, and that is linked in with the question that the noble Baroness asked about sustainability in the future. It is not an unreasonable request but we would need the agreement of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to take that forward.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, first, will support for the aerospace industry in Northern Ireland be on the next agenda of the board? Secondly, will the victims payment scheme be on the agenda, and do the Government propose to indicate what money they will make available for that scheme?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I cannot say what will be on the agenda beyond, as I said earlier, a discussion about the progress that the joint board has made so far. However, I will certainly take the point that the noble Lord has raised back to officials. I think that we will be able to explore the victims payment scheme during the next Question, but this is very much a matter for the Executive to take forward. The funding is there and comes out of the block grant.
Abortion Regulations: Northern Ireland
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Dubs
Viscount Younger of Leckie [V]
I make it clear to my noble friend that the abortion regulations do not allow abortions on the grounds of sex selection. My noble friend may be aware that the UK Government publish an annual analysis of the male to female birth ratio in England and Wales to check for any evidence—for example, if there are more girls than boys aborted. The last one was in October 2019 and there was no evidence to show.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, I should first declare an interest in that I am an active member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. I chair one of its committees and we did a report a couple of years ago on abortion. We covered both Northern Ireland and the Republic.
I will ask two questions. First, does the Minister agree that it is disappointing that for women in Northern Ireland there is still a state of uncertainty as to where they stand legally as regards their right to abortion? There are doubts about how it should work and differences in different parts of Northern Ireland, depending on which trust areas they live in. Secondly, will he further confirm that the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission has a key role to play in all this? It has responsibility for the rights of women. Has he been in touch with the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission to see how it is developing and taking this issue further?
Viscount Younger of Leckie [V]
The noble Lord is right that once the law is fully passed and the regulations come fully into law—I hope next Monday—it will give clarity and support not only to those at the front end of health in Northern Ireland, who have to supervise the abortions that take place, but in particular to the women and girls involved. I will need to write to the noble Lord about the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission.