Serious Disturbance at HM Prison Birmingham

Viscount Slim Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. With regard to those serving IPP sentences, further considerable progress is being made. For the first time, during 2015, more than 500 IPP prisoners were released, compared with only 200 or 300 in previous years. In 2015-16, 38% of IPP oral hearings completed by the Parole Board resulted in a release decision. For the first time, the number of IPP prisoners has fallen below 4,000, and we are continuing to increase our efforts with regard to those prisoners. So far as the prison population is concerned, there are from time to time strains; there are from time to time pressures on prison capacity. However, as I have said, steps are already being taken in the form of the opening of new prison estate in the new year, which will relieve any such pressure. On sentencing policy, there are no further steps at this stage that I can comment on, but clearly we have in consideration the question of how the prison population is maintained. So far as work is concerned, increased efforts have been made to provide useful, constructive work for those within the prison estate, not only so that they can work during their period of sentence but so that they have an opportunity to move into work as they move through the gate of the prison at the end of their sentence. However, we must remember that something like half the prison population enter prison with unacceptable levels of numeracy and literacy. There are formidable challenges ahead. We are prepared to meet them—and intend to.

[Viscount Slim (CB)]

My Lords, I should declare that some years ago, after the comparatively easy escape by Blake and the subsequent Mountbatten report, I was instructed, with a small team, to speak to prison governors to see if we could make it a little harder to escape from prison. I was most impressed with the prison governors. We had a two-day seminar with every prison governor in Britain. I will not go into the details because we are time-limited, but two possibilities came out of that which had not been considered—and I believe have been forgotten since.

First, there is a helicopter snatch from a prison. Making a prison a no-fly zone will ease that rather than make it a no-go. Noble Lords may remember a very successful helicopter snatch from the Isle of Wight prison. However, the thing that perturbed us most was the possibility of a break-in to break out a top terrorist or top criminal. That had not really been considered at that time. With our enemy within and the way things go now, that ought to be resuscitated and looked at. You need more than a Tornado team to deal with it. You are dealing with armed intervention and explosives. There are devious and clandestine ways but a prison distraction such as we have just seen is ideal for such an operation.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Viscount, Lord Slim. It would appear that his conversations had some effect because 2015-16 saw the lowest number of absconds from prisons—105—since records began. With respect, the more immediate issue is not helicopters but drones. We have taken steps to introduce further penalties to limit the use of drones in and around prisons. Indeed, noble Lords may be aware of the recent conviction of an individual for the use of a drone to take material into prison. That resulted in a sentence of imprisonment for 14 months—not helping the issue of overcrowding, I accept, but nevertheless bringing home to people the risks associated with the use of drones in and around prisons.