Amendment of the Law

Debate between Vince Cable and Meg Hillier

Thursday 19th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that that is a very retrograde step. The Economic Secretary and I have had discussions with the banks about how to deal with that problem, and about how to mobilise the post office network—under this Government, it has been saved and stabilised—to provide an alternative. I am not absolutely certain, but I hope that an announcement will be made within the next few days to protect the position of the last bank in the village.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

There was a £30 billion unanswered question in yesterday’s Budget. We know that there will be £12 billion of cuts in welfare, but will the Secretary of State outline to the House where the axe will fall for the remainder?

[Vince Cable]

If the hon. Lady read the document that the Chief Secretary introduced this morning, she would get a very clear picture. I have explained the 55% to 45% split, which is quite explicit, and I am very happy to defend it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Meg Hillier

Thursday 6th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

Yes, there is a high level of confidence, and it is reinforced by fact. Indeed, the output and spending figures are reinforcing the trend that the hon. Gentleman describes. There is, however, a continuing problem regarding credit to the small and medium-sized business sector. We are not complacent about that, and the interventions we are making will help.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Many businesses in my constituency tell me that their biggest problem is the withdrawal of overdrafts, and they are sometimes offered big and unwanted loans instead. Is the Secretary of State monitoring that trend, to ensure that banks are not fiddling the system to benefit themselves, and to attack small businesses that have cash-flow issues but do not need big loans?

[Vince Cable]

One positive thing is that we are now getting a growth of specialist institutions that provide small businesses with a type of finance—Aldermore provides asset-based financing or new kinds of invoice financing to deal with cash flow or investment as required. However, the hon. Lady is right to say that there is a particular problem in that area of the market.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Meg Hillier

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

This distinction between big business and small business is seriously unhelpful—most big businesses have supply chains—and we should support both.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Many small and medium-sized enterprises in my constituency—including in Shoreditch, which the Prime Minister calls tech city—are keen to bid for Government contracts, thereby growing, employing more people and becoming larger businesses. What is the Department doing to support them, because they face many hurdles in trying to become Government contractors?

[Vince Cable]

The hon. Lady will find that the trend in Government procurement is very much on track to meet the 25% target for small business. It is much more difficult with devolved bodies, such as health authorities and local government, but we are working on that with the relevant Departments.

Jobs and Business

Debate between Vince Cable and Meg Hillier

Friday 10th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

That is an extraordinarily naive question in the wake of the phenomenal financial crash that we have had. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman is familiar with the economic literature, but the econometric data suggest that after the banking crash that Britain experienced we should have lost about 50% of our GDP. We have done well to avert that. We face a difficult set of circumstances. It is a remarkable success story that in an economy that is still recovering from such a long economic heart attack, we are generating significant private sector employment growth. That is positive. Alongside that, we have seen the growth of about 250,000 new businesses, which will be the source of employment growth.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Many of my constituents are in those new private sector jobs, but the hours are limited. Many of them want to work more than the 16 hours or so that they have been given. Has the right hon. Gentleman counted how many of the new jobs are part time, with no prospect of becoming full time?

[Vince Cable]

The vast majority are in full-time work. The figures show that quite clearly. It is better to be in part-time work than out of work. I hope that there will be some recognition of that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Vince Cable]

The hon. Gentleman makes the same point I was making. The Government are pursuing that matter through the civil courts and there are substantial penalties. It is an HMRC task, but I take the point that we should perhaps make the message more easily available. Employers should not get away with the idea that they should ignore this.

Let me say a bit about a difficult area of policy in which issues of unemployment and low pay intersect: migration, which is one of the most important reforms that the Government will introduce. I was hesitant about raising the subject because it is essentially covered by the Home Office, but substantial economic issues are also involved and it is important to refer to them. I was provoked into feeling that we should debate the issue in this context because a couple of days ago I was on the radio on the “Jeremy Vine” programme. I was following a female voice that was ranting on about millions of illegal immigrants and the negligence of the Government in letting them all in and not deporting enough people. I thought at the time that it was some fringe party that regarded Mr Nigel Farage as a sort of soggy, left-wing liberal, but I then realised it was the Labour shadow Home Secretary, and I tried to understand where she was coming from. It says quite a lot about the Labour party’s current values that it feels it necessary to apologise for letting in foreigners, but is still reluctant to apologise for wrecking the economy.

I vividly recall a conversation I had with a constituent, shortly before the last general election. She was taking me to task for what she said were millions of illegal immigrants in the country and, rather recklessly perhaps, I decided to debate the subject with her. I asked, “How do you know?”, and she said, “Well, I see them in the high street the whole time.” I said, “Okay, but how do you know they are illegal?” She looked at me and said, “Mr Cable, why are you being so difficult? You know exactly what I mean”, and pointed up the road to the Hounslow mosque. Unfortunately, beneath a lot of the arguments about numbers, that is the prejudice we are trying to confront. We must, I think, make the case—I certainly intend to make it—for managed immigration that has a positive impact on the country, while at the same time providing the necessary level of reassurance.

[Meg Hillier]

Will the right hon. Gentleman update the House on his discussions with the Home Office about visas for students? The attitude of the Home Office is sending out messages that UK plc higher education is not open for business, and competition from Europe, Australia and other places is mopping up our student intake.

[Vince Cable]

I spend a good deal of time discussing that issue with the Home Office, and I will come on to students in a moment as they are a crucial category.

In order to clear the decks for an honest discussion of this problem, we must confront the reality that some of the facts, or factoids, used in this context are deeply unhelpful. All parties and commentators use the concept of net immigration as a way of measuring what is happening on that front, but at the heart of that concept lies a logical absurdity. One reason net immigration rises is because fewer British people emigrate—one would have thought it rather a good thing that people feel comfortable living in this country and want to stay here. Net immigration declines if more British people emigrate, which one would have thought is rather a bad thing. We often operate, therefore, with a concept that gives us misleading and unhelpful conclusions.

Similarly, the biggest item in immigration—this relates to the previous intervention—and the biggest category of people regarded as immigrants are overseas students. Of course, overseas students are not immigrants; that is not why they come here. A few stay on—indeed, I probably contributed to immigration statistics 50 years ago when I married someone who was then a student at the university of York. For the most part, however, people come to the UK to study and then go home. They are not immigrants, but by way of a quirk—not in our statistics, but those of the United Nations—they are regarded as immigrants and we must acknowledge that in our debates.

Setting aside prejudices and anxieties, it is important to acknowledge that in some key areas immigration makes an important and positive contribution to the UK. The first category is the one we have just been discussing: students. Overseas students contribute about £9 billion a year to the UK economy. They also contribute in other ways, but education is one of our most successful export industries. The Government have tried to curb abuses that were taking place. People were using bogus colleges as a route to illegal immigration, and those have been closed. Once we have established the principle of legality, students make a positive contribution, and I would see a negative trend in students coming to the UK as a problem rather than an achievement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Vince Cable]

That is true and the core of the policy. There is no cap on legal immigration for students, not just for universities but also properly accredited colleges. There is also a right to work subsequently in graduate-level employment, and I hope that that information will be made more widely available.

The second crucial group of people are those with key skills. The Government exempt intra-company transfers from the cap on immigration. There are many key individuals in management, banking and engineering specialties, and in a highly specialised economy we will have more and more demand for services of that kind. The Home Secretary has gone to considerable lengths to remove some of the impediments surrounding visas for people who are needed by British industry and are an important part of our economy.

[Meg Hillier]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way yet again. I am MP for Shoreditch and what the Prime Minister calls Tech City. Business after business in that area has raised concerns with me about the challenge of getting visas for key coders and programmers whom they cannot recruit in the UK because we have not yet skilled-up enough—an issue for the right hon. Gentleman’s Department. Because of the Home Office cap, businesses are struggling to get those people in. Does he have any words of comfort for those businesses about his negotiations?

[Vince Cable]

Yes, I do. It is, of course, important to train people in the UK where possible, and one of the drivers behind the apprenticeship programme is that of ensuring we build up our scandalously neglected skills base. Where there are genuine vacancies, it is important that people are able to move freely. If the hon. Lady is able to bring cases to my Department, we will try to work with the Home Office to ensure that those people are able to come.

The third group of people are not immigrants at all but visitors. We wish to maintain our reputation as an economy that is open for business, and millions of people come to the UK to do business, shop, visit family and friends, or as tourists. It is important that they can do that with as few visa restrictions as possible, and where there are visa restrictions, we must ensure they are dealt with quickly and effectively. The Government are currently working hard, particularly with countries such as China, to ensure that the system works better.

Finally, there is the issue of the so-called single market within the EU. When the single market was introduced, it was made clear that one core element is the so-called four freedoms: the freedom of trade in goods; the freedom of trade in services; the freedom of capital movements; and the freedom of worker movements. They are at the heart of free trade. I am often baffled by people outside the Chamber who clamour for free trade with Europe but denounce the free market, because they are the same thing.

Modern trade relationships—there are very few restrictions on physical trade in goods these days—frequently involve people moving backwards and forwards. That is the nature of modern trading relationships, and we must uphold it within the EU.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Meg Hillier

Thursday 15th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

Yes, I do agree, and we need to acknowledge the contribution that Lord Baker has made. He worked on this idea for a long time before it became fashionable, and it is now being implemented. It is extremely popular with young people and with employers, and the Government are getting behind it with financial support.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I recently visited a number of apprentices in my constituency in apprenticeship week, and I commend the work of Hackney community college in this respect. Interestingly, the apprentices were doing training courses, but a lot of them had no real prospect of a job at the end of their apprenticeship. What can the Secretary of State say about the Government’s plans to convert apprenticeships into long-term employment for these young people?

[Vince Cable]

The whole point about apprenticeships is that they are training for people in work, which is why they are attractive to employers and to people who apply for them. The normal practice is that people are in work, they upgrade their skills and they proceed. The overall economic benefit to the economy was recently spelt out by the National Audit Office: for every £1 of taxpayers’ money that goes in, the overall economy derives a benefit of at least £18.