Postal Services Bill
Debate between Vince Cable and Malcolm Wicks
Vince Cable
Obviously, such detailed matters will need to be resolved as the process of separation continues. It is a practical issue and, as it is a commercial matter, Post Office and Royal Mail will look for the most sensible, practical, least cost arrangement.
For the foreseeable future, Royal Mail will be the only company capable of providing the universal postal service. That means that if we want to continue to benefit from a universal service with uniform and affordable prices, we have to equip Royal Mail to survive, and indeed thrive. There is no choice. That was the conclusion of the original Hooper review commissioned by the Opposition, and his recent update for the coalition Government.
Vince Cable
I will finish this section, then I will take the intervention from the right hon. Gentleman, who I know was a Minister and had close involvement with this matter.
Some Members of the House will say that Royal Mail can modernise and survive while remaining in the public sector. They will say that Government can provide the funding that Royal Mail needs, and that the modernisation agreement in place between the union and the company is sufficient to stave off the decline in the market. That is not a view that I share. I did not share it in opposition and I do not share it now, nor is it shared by Richard Hooper or the company.
Let me be clear. The Government are the wrong shareholder for the company. Given the Government’s financial constraints, we cannot invest enough quickly enough, we cannot invest flexibly enough, and every investment that we make has to be cleared by the European Commission under state aid rules. Richard Hooper is also clear that Royal Mail cannot modernise properly, and cannot take the decisions that it needs to take, while it has the threat of political interference hanging over it.
Private sector capital will bring with it private sector disciplines, which will allow the company to modernise faster to keep pace with the changes in the market. As the last Minister with responsibility for postal services wisely said:
“Unless modernisation happens, the company will be ill equipped to deal with its challenges.”—[Official Report, 11 February 2009; Vol. 487, c. 1452.]
The Bill will therefore lift the restrictions that currently exist on the sale of shares in Royal Mail.
Malcolm Wicks
For a range of reasons, there is a widespread acceptance that Royal Mail has to modernise. That should not be a source of controversy. But given that, according to a recent YouGov poll, 60% of the public wished the service to remain a public service, including a clear majority of the Minister’s own party’s supporters—voters—and Conservative supporters, with only 15% opting for privatisation, why have the Government rejected the option of modernising a public service? We have modernised public services before. Modernisation and public service can go together.
Vince Cable
That has been happening for 13 years and it has not solved the problem. The problem is deteriorating and the Government cannot provide the investment capital. The right hon. Gentleman is right about public opinion. The public are concerned about the universal service obligation. That is the essence of public service, and it will be protected. The protections will be strengthened under the Bill in a way that I will explain in a moment. When the public understand that it is the universal service obligation, rather than public ownership itself, that is being maintained, they will have considerable reassurance.
Vince Cable
I understand that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary is very familiar with this and has spent a lot of time talking to the pension trustees. There is a whole set of reasons behind this deficit, one of which is that employees are living longer; another is that the pension fund made some rather bad investment decisions. There are contributory factors. But we are where we are: there is a massive deficit and we have to deal with it; that is the centre of the problem.
Let me add that the Government’s support for the Royal Mail pension plan is subject to state aid approval by the European Commission. The House can rest assured that we will be going to Brussels to make this case in the strongest possible terms.
Let there be no doubt: this is a good deal for the employees of Royal Mail. In almost all important respects, it is exactly the same deal as that in my predecessor’s Bill—but coupled with the legal requirement for employee shares, it is a much better deal for employees.
Vince Cable
It is a solution on which I hope that Members in all parts of the House can agree, including the right hon. Gentleman.
Malcolm Wicks
On the pension issue, which is so crucial, Labour Members will want to scrutinise the plan and the idea of selling off the assets in return for guarantees. It seems to me, however, that that plan, whether it is the right one or not, could still be carried out if the service remained a public service. I do not see why it is intrinsically and inextricably linked with privatisation. Something like this needs to be done anyway, whether or not this is the right model.
Vince Cable
Of course it does need to be done anyway, but as I explained a few moments ago, the key point about bringing in private capital is that it brings in investment as well as new and better methods of management. There are separate issues involved. However, the right hon. Gentleman is quite right: the pension fund deficit needs to be dealt with. If it were not dealt with—if the thing just continued—there would be a real danger that it would contribute to the collapse of the company: that is why we have had to intervene.
I apologise to the House for going on for such a long time, but a large part of that has been taken up with interventions, as I was anxious to ensure that Members who had concerns were able to raise them.
The last section of my speech relates to reform of the regulatory regime. At the heart of this Bill, just like the last Bill, is protection of the universal postal service. The Bill will maintain the universal postal service at its current levels—that means six-days-a-week delivery and collection at uniform, affordable prices. I would like to reassure the House that I have no intention of downgrading this service. I know that some Members have been concerned about their constituents receiving a reduced service, and I share that concern. I have therefore ensured that the Bill contains new and stronger protections around the service than is currently the case—stronger protections, too, than were in the Bill put forward by our predecessors.
Members may not be aware of this, but the Government already have the power to reduce the minimum requirements of the universal postal service without even requiring a debate in Parliament. Through the European Communities Act 1972, it can reduce them to the minimum requirements of the European postal directive—that means five- days-a-week delivery and no requirement for uniform pricing. I do not think that that is an acceptable situation. Another way of putting it is that we have European regulation to protect the universal service obligation. This is one occasion where we are arguing in favour of gold-plating; indeed, as my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary has pointed out, we are platinum-plating this particular set of protections.