Social Care Funding

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Tuesday 1st October 2019 Westminster Hall

[Sir Vince Cable]

Yes, there is a lot of joint thinking. We have the joint House of Commons Committees, and my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), as Chair, was critically involved in that. There is also a very good piece of work by the House of Lords, and the considerable brains of Lord Lawson and Lord Darling contributed to a cross-party consensus. A lot of think-tanking is going on in the vacuum created by the Government’s non-publication. There is no shortage of ideas, but we need to be clear what the problem is—and it is a very serious one.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Vince Cable]

If the hon. Gentleman lets me go through this, I will take an intervention.

The first point is the rapid growth of demand as a result of an ageing population. We all know that. As far as we can establish, because of ageing and the onset of dementia in particular, we have a growth in demand of about 3.5% a year. That is considerably in excess of the growth of the economy and the resources to fund it. That is the fundamental problem at the heart of all this. We have 800,000 people with dementia at the moment, which goes up to 1 million in 2025, rising to 2 million in 2030. At the moment, there is no clear picture of how this demand is to be met.

My second point, related to that, is that we have a large and growing hidden cost that is not quantified—unpaid caring. If we take dementia alone—just one dimension of adult social care—we have 350,000 carers at the moment, of whom 110,000 have had to give up their job, which is a cost to them, the Exchequer and their employers.

[Sir Vince Cable]

I will take an intervention, but I will return to the theme in a moment.

[Mr Jim Cunningham]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing this timely debate. He refers to costs. The costs to families and individuals hit with dementia are 15% higher than they are for any other illness. They are about £3.5 billion because people have had to give up their jobs for all sorts of reasons. I hope that further assists him and I hope he agrees that we have to think about it.

[Sir Vince Cable]

Yes, that is quite right. We tend to use dementia, particularly the work of the Alzheimer’s Society and others, to illustrate the problems here but they are not unique. Many people with arthritis, diabetes and serious stroke conditions face the same set of problems.

Special Educational Needs and Disabilities Funding

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Westminster Hall

[Sir Vince Cable]

Indeed. In addition to the problem facing local authorities, schools in effect pay a £6,000 penalty. Many schools that were committed to inclusion now find that increasingly difficult and are shying away from their obligations.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. I fully agree with him about funding for special needs schools. Hereward College in Coventry has struggled with funding for a number of years, and does an excellent job. Another dimension is that children who have mental health problems often go home to a disruptive family life. That is not conducive to their education or mental health. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that something should be done about that?

[Sir Vince Cable]

Yes, I do. By mentioning mental health, the hon. Gentleman reinforces the point that I will go on to make. When we talk about special needs pupils, we are talking about significantly different classes of people with fundamentally different problems. Of course, they are all individuals, but we are talking about 1.2 million people altogether in the SEN system—up by about 0.5 million since 2014. About a quarter of them, according to Mencap, have learning difficulties. That actually understates the problem, because Mencap estimates that about 40% of children with learning difficulties are never identified at school.

About 120,000 children are on the autistic spectrum, which is the most rapidly growing and difficult group to accommodate. About 300,000 have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Others have a physical disability. I have had correspondence with those with visual impairment problems, who lack equipment, and other groups such as deaf children, who are not included in the SEN categories at all.

We are dealing with large numbers of very different categories of people, but what they have in common is that demand for EHCPs is growing rapidly: it has grown by about 35% over the four years since the legislation was enacted, which is about three times the growth of the school population. It is also three times the amount of funding available through the Government grant allocation.

Royal Mail

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Tuesday 1st April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

Indeed, that was an utter scandal and it provided a salutary warning about choosing that approach to privatisation.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

This Government, like the previous Conservative Government, have form. One need only look at the denationalisation of the energy industry and the railways, which were sold off cheap. What will the Secretary of State do about the increase in the price of stamps and the redundancies at Royal Mail?

[Vince Cable]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the first-class stamp is subject to regulation. He assumes that the commitment to sell off Royal Mail was simply a product of this Government and previous Conservative Governments. He seems to have forgotten that the last Labour Government tried to privatise Royal Mail.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Thursday 6th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Vince Cable)]

My Department plays a key role in supporting the rebalancing of the economy through business to deliver growth while increasing skills and learning.

[Mr Cunningham]

Will the Secretary of State say what the latest position is regarding Hibu, as he met a small delegation of MPs some months ago to discuss the situation? He will know that many of the shareholders have lost a lot of money, especially those in Coventry.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

The Government have every reason to be proud of the catapult programme, which is now expanding quite rapidly. We are thereby able, through the Technology Strategy Board, to concentrate research excellence in particular locations. Some, such as those for renewable energy and advanced manufacturing, are now at an advanced stage of development, and I am delighted to hear that my hon. Friend is pleased with the location of the automotive centre.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State get together with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to have a look at the way in which the Football League applies its regulations to private ownership of football clubs, because there is a diabolical mess at Coventry at the moment?

[Vince Cable]

Coventry seems to have some problem in that area. I come from the city of York, which went through this misery, as many towns have done in the English league. I can certainly have a look at that; it is not immediately clear to me where I fit into the picture, but I am interested in football and want to see it healthy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State clarify what is actually happening to the Typhoon contract? There was an implication that it could be renegotiated. If he fails to renegotiate it, will he blame the previous Government?

[Vince Cable]

There is no question of renegotiation. The Indians have had a pre-selection process, from which the French bid has gone ahead on the basis of price. There is a lot of experience of contracts being reconsidered at the final stage, and at that stage BAE Systems has a very good case to make as part of its consortium. We will support it thoroughly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Thursday 13th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

I would certainly be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman. As it happens, as part of the growth review, life sciences and related activities are subject to close scrutiny, and I know that my colleague the Minister for Universities and Science is giving the matter a very high priority.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

3. What steps he is taking to increase employment levels in the manufacturing sector; and if he will make a statement.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between Vince Cable and Jim Cunningham

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

I am not familiar with the details of the argument in that case. I was referring to the fact that there has been a constructive relationship between the union and management on modernisation, but such issues do exist, and they are essentially commercial ones that must be dealt with by management and their employees in the normal way. None the less, I would be interested to know whether there is a specific role in the matter for the Government, and I shall respond to the hon. Lady on that.

So, I acknowledge that there will be job losses. The company is losing money and the market is declining, and that is regrettable, but it is unavoidable. The question that we need to pose is, what happens if we do not take action? What happens if Royal Mail fails and the market collapses? That is the current trend. I know that the CWU has been in Parliament today, talking to many hon. Members about their views, and I and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary, who has responsibility for postal affairs, met the CWU to discuss Royal Mail. We look forward to continuing to talk to its representatives as the Bill goes through Parliament.

However, I have one thing to say to the union directly today: the worst thing for its members, Royal Mail’s employees, would be to do nothing, because that is the real threat to jobs in Royal Mail. The employees of Royal Mail also deserve better than constant battles between the union and the management. They deserve to be properly engaged in the business that they work for, and to have a real stake in its future. That is the only way in which we will break for ever the cycle of antagonism and mistrust that has bedevilled the company. The Bill therefore requires the creation of an employee share scheme, which will hold at least 10% of the equity in Royal Mail in future. That is very far from being a token gesture; it is nothing less than the largest employee share scheme of any major privatisation.

The employees of Royal Mail will also be concerned about their pensions, and they have good reason to be, because Royal Mail’s pension deficit is huge, growing and volatile. Put simply, it is not sustainable. Even the recent agreement between the pension fund trustees and the company is fragile. It requires that Royal Mail pay off its deficit over 38 years, which is at least twice as long as any other UK company’s repayment plan, and the pensions regulator has already said that it has substantial concerns about the agreement.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Vince Cable]

I am going to go on to explain the new mechanism. Would the hon. Gentleman like to wait until I reach the end, or does he wish to intervene on that particular point?

[Mr Cunningham]

On that particular point.

[Vince Cable]

All right.

[Mr Cunningham]

On pensions, what will happen to the assets, and what is their value? I am told that the pension plan has assets of about £26 billion. Is that true?

[Vince Cable]

Yes, it is true, but the liabilities are much bigger. I shall explain in a moment how we will deal with the assets.

The pension deficit, which is the starting point, threatens the very existence of the company. It is draining cash from Royal Mail’s modernisation and preventing it from undertaking the reforms it needs to survive. That is why the Government have to take action today. As part of the sale, the Bill will allow the Government to take on responsibility for the pension deficit. We will not only address the deficit, but reduce the size of the Royal Mail pension plan to a more manageable level for the business. The liabilities of Royal Mail are more than 50 times annual profits. By comparison, the liabilities of the average FTSE 100 company are closer to one times profits—an enormous difference.

We intend to reduce the plan to about one tenth of its size today. We will do so by creating a new public sector pension scheme that will assume responsibility for paying out the past pension benefits of Royal Mail employees. In effect, all members of the Royal Mail pension plan will have their past service moved to a new Government scheme like that of the NHS or teachers. It is the same solution to Royal Mail’s pension problems as the previous Government proposed in their 2009 Bill.

I know that hon. Members will be concerned about the detail of the proposed pension arrangements, and we will provide a note to Parliament in order to explain the practical effects of those very complex changes, but I should like to reassure the House on two points in relation to pensions.

First, let me be clear that this solution is by far the best outcome for the employees of Royal Mail. The action that we are taking in the Bill will ensure that all the benefits that employees have earned will be safeguarded. The benefits that become the responsibility of the Government will be protected in the Bill, and all members of the Royal Mail pension plan will benefit from that support—Post Office and Royal Mail employees alike.

As a bottom line, the Bill places an obligation on the Government to ensure that our action leaves members in no worse a position than they were in before. This means that the amount of benefits that they receive will be at least as good as if the Government had not acted. There will also be a restriction on the Government’s ability to make any changes to the new public scheme in future that would adversely affect members. The Government intend to use that restriction to reflect as closely as possible the current protection that members of the pension plan are afforded under section 67 of the Pensions Act 1995.

Secondly, the measure is not a Government plan to massage the Government’s accounts, for the very simple reason that the Royal Mail pension plan has a deficit of £8 billion. That is the cost to the Government of implementing the solution on behalf of the company and its employees. Let me be clear: the Government are taking on liabilities that are much bigger than the assets. I have seen reports—perhaps this is what the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) was referring to—that the Government will be selling off the Royal Mail pension plan’s £24 billion of assets. It is certainly true that the surplus assets above the level needed to leave the ongoing pension plan fully funded will be transferred to the Government. It is also true that these transferred assets will be sold because it makes no sense for Government to sit on a massive investment portfolio.

I, for one, do not wish to see central Government taking such a huge investment risk with taxpayers’ money. So yes, we will sell the portfolio of assets which transfer across to Government, and this is likely to involve over £20 billion of asset sales over time. But the important point—it is absolutely crucial to this argument—is that we will be making payments to members of the Royal Mail pension plan for at least the next 50 years.