Social Care (Local Sufficiency) and Identification of Carers Bill

Debate between Tony Baldry and Roberta Blackman-Woods

Friday 7th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry]

We all have to be grown-up about this. The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South has come up in the ballot, and it is a matter for her how she deals with the Bill. She is perfectly entitled to take it forward. I am just concerned to ensure that there is no scintilla of a suggestion that we will get ourselves into a hole. I was in the House when Nick Scott was the Minister responsible for the disabled. We got ourselves into a terrible hole over a private Member’s Bill by giving the impression that we were not interested in policy relating to the disabled, which of course was totally untrue. I do not want there to be any suggestion of that happening in relation to carers. I hope that we have now found a constructive way forward.

[Roberta Blackman-Woods]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I had not intended to take so much time, so I will conclude after giving way to the hon. Lady.

[Roberta Blackman-Woods]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way when he was about to conclude. I am having some trouble following Government Members’ logic. Surely it would help if we could get into legislation the measures to support carers that we all want to see. We should give a strong message that the House supports the Bill.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Let me have one last crack at this; then I will sit down. I believe everyone in the Chamber agrees that supporting carers is incredibly important. One privilege of being an MP is that people invite us into their homes and open up to us about their problems. I suspect that we have all been to many a house where an elderly wife looks after an elderly husband, or the other way around, who has early or age-related dementia. Given our tendency to live longer, the costs of nursing home care and sometimes the difficulties of local authority budgets, the reality is that more and more people with Alzheimer’s or other age-related dementias are having to stay at home longer and be cared for by loved ones.

We also go into homes like the one that I visited recently, where I found a mother looking after her daughter who had severe learning difficulties and was effectively bedridden. That mother has looked after her daughter lovingly for much of her life. As we know, the challenges and strains of such a situation often lead to the break-up of other relationships, with all the consequences that brings.

There are also many young carers, who are often the hardest group to reach and the most overlooked. People are not always conscious that there are young carers. When we go into their homes, it is sometimes unclear who is the parent and who is the carer, and how the parent can take parental responsibilities for the child while the child takes caring responsibilities for the adult. The swings in that situation can be extraordinarily difficult.

What is almost unique about this Bill is that since the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South came high in the ballot and brought forward her Bill on carers, which was fantastic, the Government have produced a substantial White Paper covering exactly that policy area. Part of the Bill overlaps with the White Paper and part does not, but the Minister has given the undertaking that he is willing to engage with us on the bits that are not yet established as Government policy in the White Paper, to see whether it is possible for them to become Government policy before the Care and Support Bill receives its Second Reading. I would rather have an undertaking to engage in constructive debate and discussion about trying to get those provisions into the Bill, than run the vagaries of whether the Bill gets a Second Reading today—of course, how we proceed is entirely a matter for the hon. Lady—and whether, when we get to the rather boring part, Report and Third Reading, the Bill fails to make sufficient progress because the Government do not want it to proceed.

I hope that all sides of the House will recognise the importance of supporting carers and getting the policy right. The Government have acknowledged the importance of carers in the White Paper, and we must all engage in further work. We would have had to do that anyway in Committee, but instead we will work with the Minister and his officials. We must ensure that all hon. Members can support the Bill, so that when it is published it does justice to the need to support millions of carers throughout the country about whom we are concerned.