British Values: Teaching

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Wednesday 25th June 2014 Westminster Hall

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Mr Bone, I am not sure how long each of us has—about five or six minutes?

[Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)]

Yes.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Well then, the full version of my speech will be found on my website, www.tonybaldry.co.uk. This is the abridged version.

We are grateful to the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr Denham) for introducing this debate. I do not think we agree with his analysis.

The inscription on the second world war memorial in my school reads: “Whatever hope is yours, Was my life also”. Later this year, we commemorate the centenary of the start of the great war. A good starting point for defining British values would seem to be exactly what our fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers considered to be the values they were fighting for in those wars.

I think the first value, which I am sure we have learned over the centuries, is that of tolerance—the need to tolerate others and the need, in particular, for religious tolerance. That is perhaps not surprising, because there was a terrible legacy of religious intolerance in this country during the Reformation and the counter-Reformation, which led to our recognising that we needed to get along with and tolerate each other. Unlike some other countries in Europe, in Britain we have generally never had hang-ups about religious emblems, such as crucifixes, being displayed in schools or public buildings.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I do not want to delay for long, but before the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) explodes, we must hear from him.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

The secondary reason why my hon. Friend came to the two constituencies was to judge the night life. Will he please tell us whether Wellingborough or Kettering had the better night life?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Well, I fear that however I answer this question, I am likely to receive invitations from right hon. and hon. Members of all parties to go and sample the night life in their constituencies. I thought the way in which the night economies were managed by the police, by the street pastors and by everyone in Wellingborough and Kettering made them both attractive destinations for people to go and visit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Thursday 7th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We have heard from Mr Hollobone so we have got to hear from Mr Bone.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

It is an outrageous slur from my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) to say that Kettering is the nightclub capital of north Northamptonshire when everybody knows it is Wellingborough and Rushden. Street pastors in my area do a tremendous job, in particular the Full Gospel church in Rushden, which has led the way with a homeless shelter. Does my hon. Friend the Second Church Estates Commissioner agree?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

On my way to Kettering, I promise and undertake to call on my hon. Friend’s constituency and witness the work of the street pastors there as well.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Thursday 6th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I entirely agree. Everyone in the Church of England needs to understand that, so far as Parliament and the wider community are concerned, this issue is increasingly seen as the Church of England discriminating against women. That is fundamentally wrong and fundamentally bad for the image and work of the Church.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that we must tread with extreme caution in trying to tell the Church of England how to run its own affairs? It is nearly 100 years since this Parliament has interfered with the Church’s affairs—

[Mr Bone]

Although Members are entitled to hold very strong opinions, would my hon. Friend reflect that it is really up to the Church of England to sort this out?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I do not think that anyone is telling the Church of England what to do. I have a very privileged position in this House; I think I am the only person other than Ministers who has the right to answer questions—[Interruption.] Apart from my hon. Friend the Member for South West Devon (Mr Streeter), of course. I do apologise. Very few of us have the right to answer questions. There are 26 bishops—24 bishops and two archbishops—in the House of Lords as a benefit of Establishment. Those are privileges and this House is therefore entitled to give good advice to the Church of England on how the Church should be run if it is to continue to have those privileges.

Women Bishops

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry]

It was of course the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) as Prime Minister who, without any proper consultation, renounced the ability of Downing street to have any influence over the control of bishops. I am encouraged by the suggestions from Labour Members that the Prime Minister should take back the power to appoint bishops, but I suspect that might create a few problems. I think everyone will have heard the point made by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant).

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

I think my hon. Friend was wrong in what he said about the Eurosceptics, because the Eurosceptics happen to be right. The important point, which I hope he will accept, is that it is not for this House to say how the established Church is run. We may well have our own opinion, but it is a very dangerous thing for the House of Commons to tell the established Church how to run itself.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I say, in all friendship to my hon. Friend, that as I sat through the debates in General Synod, it struck me that the Eurosceptics and the conservative evangelicals had quite a lot in common in their approach. Nevertheless, he makes a serious point on which the House should reflect. Since 1919, it has been the convention that although Parliament has the ultimate control over the Church of England—it is an established Church, after all, and the Book of Common Prayer is but an annexe to the Act of Uniformity—the Church of England comes forward with its Measures, and if they are passed by the Church of England they will be approved or otherwise by Parliament. I am sure my hon. Friend will understand that if the Church of England is a national Church and an established Church, it is right and proper for Parliament to make clear its views and opinions to the Church of England and for the Church of England to hear what Parliament is saying.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tony Baldry]

I very much welcome the initiative taken by DEFRA Ministers. At the meeting I mentioned, the Minister made it very clear that he thought it was unacceptable that churches could not be used for public worship as a consequence of infestation by bats. He made it very clear to officials in his Department and officials from Natural England that he was looking to them to come forward with solutions in respect of the worst-affected churches and to report back by the autumn of this year.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

8. What recent representations he has received on the implications for the Church Commissioners of the Government’s plans to introduce same-sex marriage.

[Tony Baldry]

The Church of England will be making a detailed submission to the forthcoming consultation exercise, which will provide an opportunity for a more focused critique of what is proposed, including the proposal to distinguish in law between civil and religious marriage.

[Mr Bone]

I am very grateful for my hon. Friend’s response. Would it not be very simple just to write back and say, “Marriage is between a man and a woman so this is completely nuts”?

[Tony Baldry]

I am quite relieved by that question because I feared that we might have a question about Mrs Bone and, assuming that Mr and Mrs Bone are already married, I was not quite sure how I was going to deal with that. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. So far as the Church of England, the Roman Catholic Church and many other faith groups are concerned, marriage is a union between one man and one woman. That is a point that we will be putting forward, I hope, responsibly and clearly in the consultation.

Anti-Slavery Day

Debate between Tony Baldry and Peter Bone

Thursday 14th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bone]

My hon. Friend puts the case perfectly and I entirely agree with him.

Returning to the point about making this country one into which traffickers do not want to come, traffickers are interested only in the money. We need to make it so difficult for them that they do not want to try to operate here. That is why the coalition Government’s new proposal for a border police provides an opportunity to put trafficking right at the heart of this new initiative. Trafficking must stop, but it will stop only with the help of everyone—here and across the nation. William Wilberforce did not pass the legislation to abolish the slave trade and to abolish slavery for political gain or to achieve votes; he realised there was a fundamental problem that needed to be addressed.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s comments. One difficulty dealing with trafficked women is that they often believe that they are here illegally. They do not go to the police because they are terrified that, if they do, terrible things will happen and the police will prosecute them. What does my hon. Friend think should be the immigration or legal status of people who find themselves trafficked here? Clearly, they are not asylum seekers in the accepted meaning of the term, so how do they fit into the immigration system?

[Mr Bone]

I am conscious of time and of the fact that many other Members want to contribute to the debate. I shall wind up shortly, but to answer my hon. Friend’s point, these people are victims and they should be looked after; there are organisations such as the POPPY project that do look after them. We have a strange system at the moment whereby an adult victim of human trafficking gets better treatment than a child. Unfortunately, I do not have time to go into this further, as I note that so many Members want to speak in the debate.

Finally, I am ashamed to stand here as a citizen of this great nation and admit that we have failed William Wilberforce. After 200 years, the slave trade is still very much alive. In 200 years’ time, I do not want another Member of this House to stand where I am today and admit that he is ashamed that they have failed in what we are trying to achieve today. The first anti-slavery day must mark the start of the decline of modern-day slavery in our country.