Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Tom Brake and Fiona O'Donnell

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Tom Brake]

My right hon. Friend will be aware that the third-party register of lobbyists focuses specifically on Ministers or permanent secretaries. That is what is before us today.

We are not persuaded that the calls to capture communications with special advisers are sufficiently strong to justify amending the Bill in the manner that Lord Tyler proposes. We are, however, aware that the discussion about including such communications within the scope of the register is likely to continue. We therefore propose as a contingency an amendment in lieu that would introduce a power for the Minister to amend the definition of consultant lobbying provided for by clause 2 so that it could subsequently, if necessary, include communications with special advisers. Such a power would enable Ministers to extend the scope as suggested if and when they were persuaded of the case for doing so without the need for primary legislation. It should therefore assuage the concerns of those who have asked that we do not eliminate the possibility of expansion of the scope if it is justified in future.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

Will the Deputy Leader of the House tell us how many groups or organisations have met the permanent secretary at his Department in relation to this Bill, so that we get a flavour of how an effective a route that is?

[Tom Brake]

I am afraid that I cannot give the hon. Lady an answer to that question immediately. However, if she wants, she can do what a number of newspapers have done when they have produced so-called scoops. They have gone through the quarterly ministerial reports, looked at the meetings registered and added up the number of meetings with the permanent secretary. That information is there if she wants to pursue the question.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Tom Brake and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Brake)]

We have had a lengthy and impassioned debate, and I am grateful to all Members for their contributions. I am afraid that in the nine or so minutes that are left I will not be able to address all the points that have been made.

First, let me remind Members of what this Bill is intended to achieve. It will push this Government’s culture of openness and transparency further by creating a statutory register of lobbyists, which the Government promised to do in the coalition programme. It will ensure that third parties that campaign at elections do so openly and within a fair regulatory framework. It will provide assurance that trade unions, as increasingly large and diverse membership organisations, know who their members are and can engage effectively with them. Those are all reasonable and valuable changes to our political system.

Let me now address some comments, concerns and myths. The Bill is not about closing down charities’ ability to influence policy, as many Members claimed. I want to put on record the following so that it is clear to Labour Members, because I think there is some confusion. At present, a charity can undertake non-party political activity where its trustees can show that it supports the charity’s purposes and will be an effective use of the charity’s resources. Charity law prohibits charities from engaging in party politics, from party political campaigning, from supporting political candidates, or from undertaking political activity unrelated to the charity’s purpose. Charities, and indeed all other organisations, currently need to register as third parties only if they are spending money on campaigning to procure or promote the electoral success of a party or candidates. That test will remain under the Bill.

As under the current provisions, charities can still give support to specific policies advocated by political parties if that would help to achieve their charitable purposes. Provided that charities continue to campaign as they currently do, maintaining their political neutrality and independence, expenditure incurred by them is unlikely to come within the definition of “controlled expenditure”. It does not now and it will not under our proposals. Of course, the Government have on a number of occasions expressed a willingness to work with charities to ensure that this is clear, and if more guidance is needed, we will certainly ensure that it is in place.

Before dealing with the myths, I want to touch on scientific theories. Today we have had a very significant scientific theory proven—that there are parallel universes. Labour Members are debating a Bill that will gag charities and destroy trade unions; we are building on the transparency already created by this Government in relation to Ministers reporting their meetings by establishing a register of consultant lobbyists, by reducing the risk of super-PACs, or political action committees, and by ensuring that trade unions have up-to-date membership lists.

I have never heard as many myths as enthusiastically mouthed and endorsed with so little evidence as I have by Labour Members today. The shadow Leader of the House spoke for 44 minutes during which she made no reference to her own party’s policy. We had high-octane rhetoric that was very low in calorific value. She talked about furious displacement activity—reference, presumably, to what happened in the 13 years of Labour Government, when there was furious displacement activity on lobbying but no lobbying legislation. This Government are now acting on that. I wonder whether the hon. Lady feels any embarrassment about her wildly inaccurate allegations about what the Bill will or will not do. I am not sure whether she is doing that because she has not actually read the Bill or because she has misunderstood it. I will give her a couple of examples.

There were a few interventions, one of which alleged that, under this Bill, Make Poverty History would not have happened. That is simply not true. As the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) will know, in 2005 that campaign did not register as a third party campaign, because it conducted its campaigning in the appropriate way as a charity. That will continue under this Bill. Another intervention was on whether the Bill would impact on the Scottish referendum. The shadow Leader of the House indicated that she believes it would have had an impact on Make Poverty History and that it will have an impact on the Scottish referendum, but neither of those cases is relevant to the Bill.

[Fiona O’Donnell]

If the Deputy Leader of the House is right that there is nothing for charities to fear from the Bill, why are they and the Electoral Commission all so concerned? Is it simply a case of the same old Government excuse of bad communication?

[Tom Brake]

Clearly, the Electoral Commission has expressed concerns and when the Bill goes through its Committee stage, I am absolutely certain that further clarity will be provided and the commission will be in a better position to provide the guidance it is required to give in order to ensure that charities understand the basis on which we are proceeding.