Sittings in Westminster Hall

Tom Brake Excerpts

Tuesday 24th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Brake)]

I support the motion in the name of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House and that of the Chair of the Procedure Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), relating to business in Westminster Hall.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on receiving his OBE at the Palace today, and I am grateful to him for returning to the Chamber. I know he has been keen for the House to consider and decide on the outstanding work of his Committee before Dissolution. I am pleased that we have been able to facilitate that this afternoon.

We will consider three of the outstanding reports of the Procedure Committee today, but there is further House business to attend to, including reports by the Procedure and the Standards and Privileges Committees, the Standing Order changes necessary to bring into effect the recommendations of the House of Commons Governance Committee report, and the House of Commons Commission Bill that we have just considered. I expect there to be further opportunities for the House to consider those issues before 30 March, and it is the Government’s intention to provide time for those outstanding reports—including the report on private Members’ Bills—that have been agreed, so that those issues on which there is a wide consensus can be resolved before the end of the Parliament. I stress the importance of there being a wide consensus.

[Thomas Docherty]

I have listened carefully to the Deputy Leader of the House’s choice of words. It is our view, with the best will in the world, that a wide consensus is not the same as a Government veto. If the Government do not like a substantive part of the report on private Members’ Bills, they should say so publicly, which, ironically enough, is one of the things that the report seeks to get them to do in relation to private Members’ Bills. The Government simply not wanting to table a motion is not an excuse for not debating the issue in the House. The House is supreme and it should decide, not the Government.

[Tom Brake]

I have heard what the hon. Gentleman has had to say. He has now made two forceful bids for that report to be debated. It is worth underlining, however, that the hon. Gentleman will be as aware as anyone of the range of views on the issue of private Members’ Bills and how the process could be improved, ameliorated or changed.

[Mr Charles Walker]

Given that we have strayed into the area of private Members’ Bills, I shall be brief, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I know this is slightly naughty. The Government’s opposition to so much of that report seems implacable, so it is probably best that it is not debated in this Session, unless that opposition relents.

[Tom Brake]

I thank my hon. Friend for that clarification and apparent counter-bid to block any proposal to debate that particular report.

I would now like to move on to the motion and thank my hon. Friend for the way in which he set it out. The motion is the result of the Procedure Committee’s “Business in Westminster Hall” report, published in October 2014, and the follow-up report, which included the Government response and a revised Standing Order No. 10, published in January.

I am grateful to the Chair of the Committee for the comprehensive way in which he set out the implications for the House of agreeing the motion. I am also grateful for the work of the Committee and pleased that the report recognises that the Government accepted the majority of the recommendations in the original report.

The changes that will be introduced if the House approves the motion represent a sensible package of evolutionary changes to the work conducted in the second Chamber. Westminster Hall has proved itself as a valued resource since its introduction in 1999. Indeed, I can confirm that I used to make extensive use of Westminster Hall, usually for debates on the future of my local hospital, St Helier, on which my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow) and I continue to campaign to this day, although that is not the purpose of this debate. The changes will, I hope, add further to the status of Westminster Hall. We have already seen some of the changes during this Parliament. For example, the use of additional time on Mondays for the consideration of e-petitions by the Backbench Business Committee is testament to the sort of valuable work that is conducted in Westminster Hall.

The Procedure Committee’s recommendation for the provision of one-hour debates on Tuesdays and Wednesdays—by extending sittings for half an hour—will provide useful additional flexibility and is a welcome recognition of anecdotal evidence that many Members who wish to raise issues feel constrained by the limits of a 30-minute debate, but would not necessarily wish to apply for a 90-minute debate. That change will be welcomed by Members, without placing additional onerous requirements on Ministers and Opposition spokespeople. The arrangements set out in chapter 2 of the Committee’s original report, to provide an opportunity for Opposition spokespeople to participate in such debates, are sensible, although my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne will have heard a request from the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) for clarification on the precise role that Opposition spokespeople will play. I and others would certainly appreciate clarity from the Procedure Committee on whether the proposal is optional or the Member who has initiated the debate will have to request it.

Similarly, the changes that mean that debates in Westminster Hall will be considered on neutral general motions, not Adjournment motions, is entirely sensible. Clearly, there are people among the wider public who understand what an Adjournment motion is, but I suspect the overwhelming majority of members of the public, and perhaps Members of Parliament, would be more comfortable with “general motions” as a clear description of what is being debated.

[Mr Walker]

On speeches by Opposition Front Benchers, the report says that

“so long as they are brief we recommend that Opposition spokespeople be able to participate in hour-long debates in Westminster Hall. We trust that Chairs in Westminster Hall, backed by the Chairman of Ways and Means and the Panel of Chairs, will offer robust guidance to Opposition spokespeople on the appropriate length of their speeches.”

It is not the Committee’s intention that Opposition spokespeople get the same amount of time as a Minister.

[Tom Brake]

I thank my hon. Friend for that clarification, although it still leaves slightly open the question of whether it is optional. The Chair could choose not to allow the Opposition spokesman or woman to speak. I am sure that can be clarified in the future.

Many in the House are keen that our work is as open and transparent to members of the public as possible, and this is a small step in the direction of giving the House’s procedures greater clarity and consistency.

The Government did not agree with three issues in the original report. Those issues are set out in the Government response and the subsequent report containing the revised recommendations. I am grateful to the Committee for being willing to accept the Government’s view on those issues, and for bringing before the House a set of proposals that should have widespread support from across the House.

With regard to the use of substantive motions in Westminster Hall, the Government agree that the main Chamber is the proper place for debates on amendable business, not least in view of the practical difficulties surrounding voting in Westminster Hall. The Government do not wish to rule out the possibility of taking some substantive business in Westminster Hall at some point—for example, to remove pressure on the Chamber—but much more work would need to be undertaken on the practical and procedural implications. For that reason, the Government did not support the recommendations of the Committee for the repeal of paragraphs (9) and (12) of Standing Order No. 10, although we accept that those provisions have not been used.

The Committee recommended that the current sittings on Mondays and Thursdays be swapped so that Select Committee debates chosen by the Liaison Committee and Back-Bench debates would be taken on a Monday, and any debates on e-petitions would be scheduled on a Thursday. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife said, the Government are committed to maintaining the integrity of Thursday as a full parliamentary day, which I hope all Members of the House will respect. The Committee’s proposals, which the Government could not support, would send a contrary signal, particularly given that there would be no business in Westminster Hall on many Thursdays.

The Committee proposed an earlier start and finish time in Westminster Hall on Thursdays. Without evidence of widespread support for this measure, the Government opposed it. I am grateful to the Committee for deciding not to press that proposal.

I again thank the Committee for its work. I ask the House to support the motion. If approved, the new Standing Order would be introduced at the start of the next Parliament.