Representation of the People (Scotland)

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I rise to oppose the Bill that has been brought forward today. It is slightly ironic that, on the one side of the argument, we have the hon. Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) who was raised in Scotland and who represents a Cumbrian constituency, and on the other side, we have a Member who is proud to have been raised in Cumbria and now represents a Scottish constituency.

I am proud to be British, proud to be a Scot and proud to be a Cumbrian. I do not see any need to have the false divide that the handful of nationalists who have turned up today seek to put forward. My right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) leads the campaign to keep the UK together, and I am delighted to say that, under his leadership, we continue to enjoy the confidence of the majority of Scots. We look forward, in the months ahead, to the First Minister and my right hon. Friend debating the matter and setting out the argument.

The hon. Member for Carlisle raised an interesting issue, which is worthy of further debate. I look forward to having longer and fuller discussions in the months ahead. None the less, there are flaws in his argument. Some 430,000 residents of Scotland were born elsewhere in the United Kingdom. They face a difficult choice if the unthinkable happens and Scotland chooses to break away from the rest of the United Kingdom. The question I put back to the hon. Gentleman, who made his case well, is this: who represents those 430,000 non-Scots-born residents of the United Kingdom? What also happens about the important issues that will continue to have to be debated in the period between the 7 May general election and the date in March 2016 when Scotland breaks away from the rest of the United Kingdom? I imagine that the Scots will still be expected to pay taxes to the Treasury; I am conscious of the debate that follows this one. What happens to those Scots? Would they, under the proposal put forward by the hon. Gentleman, continue to pay taxes to the Treasury?

What happens to the spending decisions that would affect Scotland in those 10 months between the general election and the break up of Britain? Would the Departments of the UK Government still make spending decisions on behalf of the Scots? What happens on issues such as defence and international relations? What happens in the dreadful event of this country being required to take military action? Would the brave men and women who served so proudly in the British armed forces be represented and have their voices heard?

Unfortunately, the hon. Gentleman did not mention what would happen in the other place. There are Members of the House of Lords who arguably would face a constitutional issue as well—[Interruption.] I am sorry that the nationalists continue to chunter from a sedentary position rather than listening to the debate that is taking place.

Many of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents work over the border, for example at the decommissioning site in Chapelcross. As the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, who is in his place, knows, many residents of England work at Chapelcross at a station under the control of the Department of Energy and Climate Change. Who would be responsible for the decommissioning of Chapelcross during those 10 months? The hon. Gentleman did not answer those questions, unfortunately.

In the Edinburgh agreement, the Prime Minister and the First Minister set the date of 18 September. For a Conservative Member to have realised only now that a constitutional issue needs to be dealt with is slightly surprising, and he might perhaps be better off taking up the issue with the Prime Minister.

This is not the first time that the United Kingdom has had to consider such constitutional issues. In the last century, when the southern part of Ireland chose to break away, the same issues had to be examined. Following the ceasefire in July 1921, a number of non-Sinn Fein Members continued to sit in Parliament. Constitutionally, they were perfectly entitled to do so and they played an important role. I am grateful to the House of Commons Library for providing some information about that. Important issues had to be resolved. What will happen to the service personnel in Scotland who do not wish to be part of the Scottish defence force? The same issues were considered by the five Members from the south of Ireland—from Dublin and elsewhere, Independent Unionists and others—who took part in the debate. What will happen to our pensions? What will happen to our property, assets and liabilities?

It is not just a question of ensuring that the interests of those 430,000 residents in Scotland are looked after. Important constitutional issues need to be debated. Further to the point of order that was made earlier, if the hon. Gentleman is, as I believe, sincere that he does not seek the break-up of the United Kingdom, I offer him an open invitation to come over the border to Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, to Dumfries and Galloway and to the rest of Scotland. The vast majority of Members of this House and the other place do not wish to see Scotland break away from the rest of the United Kingdom.

I appreciate the spirit in which the hon. Gentleman has introduced his Bill, and it is not in Scotland’s interests that we break up the United Kingdom, but there are important constitutional issues to deal with and this is not the mechanism by which to do that. The Opposition will not support him today and we urge colleagues on both sides of the House to reject the proposition, so that we can go forward—better together—to 18 September and keep Britain together.

Question put (Standing Order No.23).