Malvern Hills Bill [HL]

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 4th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to contribute to this debate and it is a huge pleasure to follow other noble Lords. I think it has been an interesting exposure so far of not only the passion that people have for this wonderful part of our country but the interest in what has brought the Bill to this point.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, talked about local people and the local area. Interestingly, the Malvern Hills Trust area is enveloped within an AONB but, as has already been pointed out, one of the reasons why we are in this rather unusual situation is that it was recognised, well over 100 years ago, that not only should this area be protected but that a levy needed to be created to help contribute towards that. We know that the 1949 Act allowed the creation of the national parks and AONBs, and there is something to be said here in thinking about the governance. It is not a suggestion I want to specifically recommend to this House or to the Committee, but one of the things that has come up in this situation is around governance: is it a charity, a public body or even a public authority? This special situation is why we have the Bill here today. This is not the first private Bill I have been involved in; as a Defra Minister, I was involved in the Middle Level Act 2018. It is interesting to see a DCMS Minister—the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross—here today, because of that link to the charity.

We should bear in mind that the trust itself says it became a charity in 1984 only because it was legally required to do so. The other thing that has not been set out to your Lordships today is that a different approach was considered a few years ago. In the two Charities Acts—in particular the Charities Act 2011—a process was initiated, and which went a long way, to consider whether some of these modifications could be changed, recognising the provisions that have been put in place thanks to Parliament to simplify some of this process. However, given the degree of concern and opposition, the Secretary of State at the time, through the Charity Commission, rejected the approach of taking it through the parliamentary procedure of the Charities Act, and said that it should come back as a private Bill to get the full scrutiny that the petitioners quite rightly expect.

I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, for his expert navigation of the Bill so far, and to my noble friend Lord Attlee. I am conscious that the noble Lord has perhaps engaged more than I have in thinking some time ago about how to make the governance a particular focus of discussion. That has been a key issue which has been raised in several of the petitions.

I am also conscious of what the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, said, and she is right to raise those concerns. There is certainly trouble at mill. It is not a happy ship, and it should not necessarily need Parliament to be involved. However, recognising the situation we are in, and recognising that nobody wants this trust, this conservators’ body, to be collapsed and simply absorbed into the AONB, here we are. It is right that we have a Select Committee consider these important issues.

One reason I put my instruction in is because the private Bill is rarely used in Parliament. There are only a handful of other places in a similar situation, such as what happens with the Conservators of Ashdown Forest, and perhaps the New Forest—which has a far more ancient aspect of governance, but which was still put into statute. Then there is the much smaller, but still similar, Wimbledon and Putney Commons trust. What the Malvern Hills Trust has in common with the Wimbledon and Putney Commons trust is the ability to, in effect, require a levy. That is what lends itself to the governance, and to people being concerned that, under their own volition, and also by being part of the Charity Commission, the trustees, who are also the board of directors—they are holding the two posts simultaneously—are saying that they have to follow what the Charity Commission is saying, not necessarily the original status of what was put forward. That is why I understand why people are concerned that changes in representation could have an impact on the future of this very special part of our country.

As has been mentioned, there are other situations where a proportion of trustees or directors—whatever they are going to be called—are elected directly, and others are appointed. We seem to have almost a National Trust Council situation, where there is a balance. But I raise the point, which is also being put forward by some of the councils which have petitioned, that all the 29 appointed bodies today—apart from the Church Commissioners—are, I believe, elected in their own right, and will appoint somebody to do that. This is a changing point, which is why—as has been pointed out—it has attracted attention from a record number of petitioners on a private Bill. This Bill is not the same as a hybrid Bill, and HS2 certainly got more, but, according to the clerks, it received a record number of petitioners for a private Bill.

I am interested in this because it is a very special part of the country, and because, through my experience as a Minister, I understand how passionately people feel about a very special place where they live, and which they treasure and want to continue to be special. They are nervous about not only aspects of the governance but some of the clauses in the Bill. I do not know where the equivalent here of the under-gallery is, but I appreciate that the parliamentary agent is almost certainly going to be here somewhere. I am not suggesting that they are going to try to strike out a number of the petitioners, but we have already heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, that some people who are currently on the board and have made a petition to express publicly their concerns are now in a particular procedure and process.

To that extent, one thing that can happen is that, if certain petitions are struck out, the Select Committee is not required to consider the issues that they may have raised. That is why the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, is accurate to say that I have basically copied and pasted—recycling is classic environmental stuff—the instruction of the departed Baroness Macleod of Borve for consideration today.

I deliberately did not put the commercial side in because I think that there is a lot of sense in trying to increase the opportunity for the trust to raise money itself in a variety of ways; at the moment, it seems somewhat constrained in that. I do not intend to go through all the different petitions, but there are some very valid discussions about aspects of the Bill. I am sure that the parliamentary agent will work with the promoters to tidy up parts of the Bill that just do not work today—there are references in it to subsections that do not exist. That is not necessarily a matter for the Select Committee, but it needs to be tidied up.

I come back to this key question about whether it is a charity or a public body. There is no actual legal definition of what a public body is. I am mindful that, in response to a question posed by my noble friend Lord Attlee, the Government said that it was not a public body. Meanwhile, the ONS has come forward to say that it is some kind of public body or public authority, and I am not surprised by that classification. I cannot think of another example—except potentially the Wimbledon and Putney Commons trust that I referred to—that can require a levy to be imposed on people and not be considered some kind of public authority. I do not want to get into the details about FoI and the like, but I notice that, on its own website, the trust refers to the fact that it is under obligation through public law regarding biodiversity. I know, because I wrote that obligation. I passed that regulation myself, and it is only for what are considered to be public authorities.

Although the Bill puts in a lot of powers to the Secretary of State, it is unclear right now—I would be grateful if, when she speaks, the Minister could clarify—whether that means it is the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport or the Secretary of State for Defra who will make these determinations in the future. It is those sorts of things that, as a consequence, have got people’s backs up, because this is where part of the governance element comes through, when it is said, “You’re not here to represent areas; you’re here to do what the charity says”. This is why this really does need some careful scrutiny. My noble friend Lord Attlee has put down a perfect instruction. Mine might have been copied and pasted, but it was made with the intention of making sure that other issues that have been brought forward by the petitioners are carefully considered.

I am conscious that access is a really important matter of debate. There has been a recent Supreme Court ruling, again, linked to legislation in this House— I am of course referring to Dartmoor. That legislation and that Supreme Court ruling do not apply anywhere else in the country. They apply only to Dartmoor, and that is because of the wording of the Act. That is why, overall, I really am keen for the Select Committee to consider carefully all the factors that petitioners have raised, and why I have put forward an instruction to make sure, in spite of what other processes might go on in Parliament, that these are considered.

I do not intend to oppose the Second Reading of the Bill, and I hope that the Committee will give it fair consideration on behalf of all the petitioners and, importantly, on behalf of Parliament.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Coffey]

That it be an instruction to the Select Committee to whom the Malvern Hills Bill is committed that—

(a) the committee considers to what extent if any the powers proposed to be granted by the Bill go beyond what is necessary for the Malvern Hills Conservators (to be renamed under the Bill as the Malvern Hills Trust) properly to manage the land within their jurisdiction; and

(b) the committee pays particular attention to the provisions which would impede or restrict public access.

Motion agreed.