The Future of Pubs

Thérèse Coffey Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Benton. I declare straight away that although I am not a pub landlord, I am a member of the Campaign for Real Ale, and so often associate the words “beer” and “pub”. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting the debate and the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) and my hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) for making a compelling case and securing the debate a couple of weeks ago.

Everyone knows that the pub is the heart of the community, especially in our rural parishes. I grew up in a city and so have a different relationship with and memory of the pubs I visited there, but in the parish, the pub is truly the place where one goes to get gossip, beer, often food, and companionship. I used to live in Hampshire, and even now I can say “pub” to my dog and she knows that we are going to the pub. Dogs are mainly welcome in rural pubs, which is another reason why they are a good place to be. I am sure that for many of us the most important feature when organising our election campaigns was the choice of which pub to go to at lunchtime and in the evening as part of our rest time.

Of course, going to the pub for the first time is a rite of passage. In the main Chamber today we heard about the rites of passage that some of our young people go through, but turning 18 and going for that first legal drink in a pub is an important one in this country. Anyone who has ever been to Epcot, a theme park in Florida where every country from around the world is represented by a particular village, will know that the bit that represents the United Kingdom is the pub, which shows the international recognition of that institution. Even Madonna was keen on her Friday night drinks when she lived in London.

However, the debate is not about rites of passage, or recognition that the pub is the heart of the community, but about the future of pubs. The statistics seem rather gloomy. The number of pubs closing each week seems to be increasing. We recognise that there are financial difficulties, partly because people are tightening their purse strings and deciding how much they want to spend, and partly because of the increasing duty that pub landlords and landladies face when selling their goods and because of the rent for the lease, which may have been fixed in the good times, but still has to be paid in the bad times.

The difficulties pubs face can also be the result of a lack of support and a lack of customers, perhaps because of changes in lifestyle. I think that another Member plans to talk about changes in permitted practice, particularly the ban on smoking indoors, which some have indicated has led to a drop-off in the number of people attending pubs. Anecdotally, I recognise that to be true. As most landlords will confirm, the smoking ban has led to a lack of drinking because people are outside smoking, so there is an element of transactions falling as well.

To be honest, there are some awful pubs in our country, but there are some terrific ones as well. Pubs are so much about the people who run them and the customers who go there. Like any small business, they have to be excellent in order to thrive, but we, as politicians, need to ensure that they have the conditions in which they can thrive. As any business knows, it is all about footfall, average transaction value and costs, and the first two can be increased only with a great business leader, and a great landlord and landlady.

There are about 54,000 pubs. About one third of them are free houses, which leaves a significant proportion of the trade tied and managed. I could be wrong on this, but I believe that there are more pubs than churches in our country, which reflects how important they are. Like churches, many of our pubs are tied to one religion—or one brewery. There are some excellent breweries. The brewery in my constituency, Adnams, has a significant number of excellent pubs. It promotes the community and has community awards—that is an important part of running an Adnams pub. I should also refer to the other excellent Suffolk brewery, Greene King, which also has a number of excellent pubs around the country.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I am a great fan of pubs, as many pub landlords in my constituency know perfectly well, not just by what I say but by what I drink. I want to mention microbreweries, which perform a valuable function. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is a good idea to encourage microbreweries? I have done so by having a brew made called “Neil’s coalition brew”, which is proving popular. That underlines the role of microbreweries.

[Dr Coffey]

I hope that there is not too much froth on the beer when it is pulled—I am sure there is not. I am sure that the beer has a good head and a stout body. [Interruption.] He will bring us a bottle—excellent.

Of course, I recognise that there are restrictive practices. My hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands referred to the tie, and how it can be damaging to a landlord who wants to experiment with extra guest beers and so on. They can be told that they cannot do something. They can actually be told by the brewery, or by a landlord of a different kind, that they are not allowed, for example, to show football anymore. It can really kill a pub if the landlord has decided to branch out into a particular area and is then told that they cannot. I believe that sometimes that is done deliberately to try to run down the custom of a pub and lead to its closing. Why would someone do that? The reason has already been alluded to: planning. Let us be honest: sometimes the land, the building or the pub garden could fit in six or 10 houses, which would provide a great deal more instant income for a landowner than keeping a pub going in a particular area.

Options are coming forward. I am delighted that the Minister with responsibility for pubs is here to give us answers about community right to buy. Pubs are not small things to take on, but at least communities will be given the powers to take them on if they wish to, and that is good news.

My hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) has introduced the Protection of Local Services (Planning) Bill, which he sees as a way of trying to restrict the change of use of certain amenities such as pubs, community centres and shops. I do not think that that is necessary. I cite Basingstoke and Deane borough council, where I used to live some time ago. Its planning policies were very restrictive. In fact, they virtually ruled out change of use of any community facility, including pubs. If a pub or shop is lost, they are gone for ever; it is almost impossible for them to return. We should encourage our local councils to look at examples of good practice where that element has been restricted without the need for primary legislation.

Looking forward and trying to be much more positive, pubs with the right ownership and freedoms have a safe future in our country. They need stronger freedoms. My hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands referred to guest beers, and my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) referred to relaxing laws about, for example, live music. I will name my landlords, but this will be the only time, Mr Benton. Rick and Jennie Powling run the White Horse in Westleton, which is the fine hostelry that I frequent every Friday night. They are paranoid whenever someone brings in a guitar. They almost leap on them and say, “You can’t play that here. You can play it outside, just not inside.” That is ridiculous and crazy. Music in pubs—not just specialist music pubs—is important. The community should be able to enjoy fine songs such as “Wild Rover”, and talk about beer, money and landladies to their heart’s content.

There are many people who want to speak today, so I shall come to a halt. The future will be brighter for our pubs if they are freer to operate—if they are set free from unnecessary regulation. Other Members will speak about pricing, but I would like to remove the distortion in the market that makes it cost that much more to drink in the pub than at home, where people can drink beer that they have purchased at below cost price. This is about planning, and encouraging our councils to be more restrictive and protective of their precious assets in villages, towns and cities across the country.

We must also encourage other income streams; I think of what is happening with post office essentials. If a pub is open from 11 until 11, there is no reason why one cannot buy stamps and get driving licence forms and so on there. There are also aspects such as the internet hub. We have the digital village pump, and I know that schemes are afoot already to try to ensure that it is near the pub, so that people can use the internet there as well. Of course, we had the endorsement of His Royal Highness Prince Charles in 2001, when he spoke about the pub as the hub. On that note, I raise my glass and toast the future of British pubs. Cheers, everyone.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Mulholland]

The good news for my hon. Friend and, indeed, the Minister is that I have exactly the answer to that very point. It is not my original idea. Being a politician, I may sometimes take the credit for things, but I will not on this occasion. A Bill has been proposed by CAMRA, and is, I am delighted to say, being promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams). The Protection of Local Services (Planning) Bill will have its Second Reading in the new year. The save the pub group officially backs it. The Bill would do precisely what my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) has described; it would give councils the power to extend planning permission to local services that they designated. It would cover certain particularly important shops, post offices, pubs and perhaps petrol stations—the things that a community would identify for itself as important. Perhaps I may reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey), who is passionate about pubs and beer, about this—I enjoyed a glass or two with her at the Great British beer festival earlier this year. We should support the Bill; it would not do what she fears. It would simply give councils the power to adopt those practices if they wanted to, and to extend the planning permission in question. The provisions would be flexible and decentralising, but would not impose anything.

[Dr Coffey]

My hon. Friend is right to praise the aims of the Bill. I support them. I simply wanted to point out that I am not sure that primary legislation is required. I think that councils already have powers. I cited Basingstoke and Deane as a good example of somewhere that has used those powers in its planning process and policies.

[Greg Mulholland]

I thank my hon. Friend for that point, but she is lucky. Clearly her council appreciates the importance of pubs, but many councils do not, and I am afraid that Leeds city council is one with a poor record of defending them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

I have long been of the view that the local pub is an essential part of the social fabric of our communities and that it plays an important role in the social cohesion of areas. Just to make it clear, I am talking not just about city centre pubs and clubs, which the journalist, Simon Heffer, called “impersonal drinking factories” in an article in The Daily Telegraph in June, but about local pubs that serve their own local communities in both rural and urban areas.

I regularly visit two pubs, both of which are within walking distance of where I live, and I will mention their names, because it is relevant to the debate. The Stokers pub in Little Stoke is a 10-minute walk away. Eddie Benjamin, the landlord and a friend of mine, and I have discussed his struggle to remain open. Eddie has run the Stokers for 15 years, but now under present circumstances he is struggling to keep his community pub alive, viable and in business. It made a small loss last year. He has had to endure a doubling of the business rate, from some £16,000 to £34,000—an increase of nearly £18,000 a year on a pub that made a small loss. Sky Sports charges are linked to the pub’s rateable value, and that cost has increased from £9,200 a year to £13,500 a year, an increase of roughly a third. As has been discussed often and at length, the smoking ban probably affects all pubs throughout the land.

Overall, the smoking ban has been positive. It has improved the environment of pubs no end, especially for those that rely on serving food as a key part of their business, and it makes for a much more pleasant experience for most people who are non-smokers. It has also made pubs more family friendly. But there needs to be a re-think on having a dedicated smoking area inside buildings, with extractor fans, where no children would be allowed and no food would be served. I realise that this would not be possible in every case, but it would allow many pubs to utilise extra space or even have a smoking bar and non-smoking bar or room/lounge—whatever—and end the practice of smokers being thrown outside in all weathers at any time of day or night, with the problems that can be caused with disturbance to local residents who live close by. That would generate a significant increase in business for pubs that are currently struggling and it could make the difference between a pub staying open or closing.

Although in a commercial world we have to make hard-headed decisions based on profit and loss, let me give specific examples from my other local pub, the Beaufort Arms in Stoke Gifford, which does fantastic work in the local community. Yesterday, I rang the landlord, Jason, and told him that I intended to speak in this debate. He gave me examples of where the pub really was reaching out to the local community. For example, it funds the transport costs of the local Filton brass band, and it is having a big draw just before Christmas, with the money raised going to local charities. I have attended functions of the Stoke Gifford branch of the Royal British Legion at the pub. The Beaufort has been a great supporter, and is a great focal point for the local community.

Another pub in my constituency—I will not mention its name—has offered to open its doors to help to facilitate a postal service in the village. When the local post office closed down, we were looking for avenues to provide a temporary service, and the pub offered its services, which would benefit the whole village. The landlord of the Beaufort was anxious to ensure that, although binge drinking receives much bad press in the media, we do not allow all pubs to be stigmatised. My experience is that real local pubs promote sensible drinking.

I support the Government’s suggestion of local communities being given the opportunity to take over local pubs under new powers in the localism Bill, perhaps funded by the big society bank. But we must ensure that as many functioning pubs as possible remain open.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s support for community pubs. Will he consider the Plunkett Foundation, which supports community shops and pubs, and particularly the right to buy that he referred to?

[Jack Lopresti]

Absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend.

The Government must also encourage further co-location of services in pubs. There are examples of post offices being set up in pubs, and delicatessens and small shops being incorporated into pub design. Thus the public as consumers can take responsibility to support, enjoy and encourage others to experience the hospitality and pleasure gained from a trip to the pub, and to inform others what the loss of such valuable community hubs would mean for quality of life and social cohesion in our local areas.