Ukraine, Middle East, North Africa and Security

Baroness May of Maidenhead Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)]

We have indeed had an extremely interesting debate and have heard a wide range of views.

The debate was opened by a powerful and thoughtful speech by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, who set out the Government’s position with great clarity. I welcome the careful and serious response from the shadow Foreign Secretary and his hope that it will be possible to work together to address the challenges we face, for events in Ukraine, north Africa and most particularly the middle east all pose grave and significant challenges, and it is right that the House has had a chance to debate these issues fully.

Indeed, the role of Parliament, not just in debating these issues but in consideration of possible military action, was a theme referred to by a number of hon. Members, including my right hon. and learned Friends the Members for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) and for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) and my hon. Friends the Members for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) and for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray). As the shadow Home Secretary said, there have been a large number of contributions to this debate. I might not be able to refer to all of them, but I will do my best during the time available to me.

A number of speakers referred to Ukraine, including the hon. Members for Preston (Mark Hendrick) and for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) and my hon. Friends the Members for Bosworth (David Tredinnick) and for New Forest East (Dr Lewis). The hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) raised a specific issue about the annexation of Crimea. I can assure her that this Government do not and will not recognise the illegal annexation of Crimea by Russia. The hon. Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall) reminded us that what is happening in Ukraine has had an impact on us here, by referring to the fact that sadly one of her constituents died in the attack on flight MH17.

A number of other Members focused on Israel, Hamas and Gaza. Not all of them shared the same analysis of these issues. My hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) spoke about the threat from Hamas. The hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) also referred to these issues and asked about debating the US-UK mutual defence agreement. I can tell him that, in accordance with the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, proposed amendments will be laid before Parliament for scrutiny later in the year. The issue of Gaza was also referred to by the hon. Members for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and for Newport West (Paul Flynn).

The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) raised some specific issues, including one relating to DEFRA. I will ensure that she gets a written response to her question.

For most Members of the House, however, this was an opportunity to refer to issues relating to Iraq and Syria. Some common themes came out from their contributions. The first—perhaps it seems an obvious one, but it is still worth saying—was that anything we do should mean acting in the national interest. A number of Members referred to the importance in doing that of considering our values, which underpin our actions. They included my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) and my hon. Friends the Members for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris) and for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart), who advocated more funding for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—I am not sure whether the Foreign Secretary was here at that point. My hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border also referred to the importance of the knowledge, understanding and expertise in the Foreign Office in looking at these issues, but also the understanding that we need to have of our place in the world and the values that underpin the actions we undertake.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) and the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) referred to the NATO summit, the latter saying that what came out of it underlined the United Kingdom’s place in the world.

There was also a shared analysis of the brutality and barbarism of ISIL and the threat that it poses to the United Kingdom. Reference to that was made by, for example, the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) and my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes).

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) talked about the actions—the terrible actions in some cases—taken against Christians, not just in Iraq but in other parts of the world, and about the impact of those actions. My right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Sir Richard Ottaway) made a link, which I do not think anybody else made, between the operation of ISIL and its financing from criminal activities.

Another theme was the need to build alliances in order to deal with the threat. The hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) said that we need a coalition to defeat the caliphate. My hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee) talked about working with states in the middle east and made reference to his long-standing concern about the need to work with communities here in the United Kingdom.

A theme in a number of speeches was that the Government should work to a strategy, but also that we should be prepared to take the action necessary to protect our national security. The possibility of air strikes was referred to by a number of Members, including my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) and my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron). Having said that, there were some words of warning from the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) —he is not in his place, so my pronunciation can pass by—and the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd). My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) referred to the need to talk more, a point echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner).

A number of Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), spoke about the importance of an inclusive Government in Iraq and it is a concern shared by the Government. Other Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth), raised the need to ensure that there are adequate resources for our needs.

There was not always an agreed position on Syria. It was interesting to note that the right hon. Members for Blackburn (Mr Straw) and for Neath (Mr Hain), both senior members of the Opposition and former Cabinet Members, joined by my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), were all of the mind that there should be talks with Assad—a position not shared by the Government.

We are ever alert to the changing nature of the threat posed by terrorism to Britain and its interests abroad. In recent years, we have seen the threat continue to diversify, and it can come from any number of countries or groups. It is manifesting itself most sharply at present in Syria, but north Africa and the Sahel are also examples of this worrying trend. Extremist groups, including al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and like-minded groups in Libya, are increasingly able to operate across vast and ungoverned spaces.

Last year, we saw an al-Qaeda-linked group attack the In Amenas gas facility in Algeria, killing 40 people, including six British nationals. We have seen terrorist attacks in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya, and a threat to British nationals of kidnap and attack. We are working closely with our Government counterparts in north Africa to support them in countering the terrorist threats more effectively, but tackling terrorism in such areas remains a real challenge, making it all the more imperative to take a robust and comprehensive domestic approach to countering terrorism.

Before I focus on Syria and Iraq in that connection, let me respond to a point raised by the right hon. Member for Blackburn about Iran and the issue of reopening an embassy in Tehran. We will do that as soon as the practical issues can be resolved, including those associated with re-establishing any visa service. I am sure he will understand the need for the appropriate infrastructure, staffing and the processes to ensure that we can offer a proper service. It is the practical considerations that are a matter of concern.

The collapse of Syria and the emergence of terrorist groups such as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant pose very significant challenges to our national security. As we have heard, we are seeing an unprecedented concentration of the terrorist threat in and from Syria and Iraq. Terrorist groups fighting in Syria are supported by increasing numbers of foreign fighters, including numbers in the hundreds from this country and thousands from elsewhere. This presents a significant challenge due not only to the number of people fighting with the many Syria and Iraq-based terrorist groups, but to their proximity to the UK, ease of travel across porous borders in the region and the availability of weapons. We are indeed looking to see what further powers we need to take here in the United Kingdom to be able to deal with the threat that these people pose.

People who insist on travelling to fight in Syria and Iraq will be investigated by the police and security services. We have already taken tough action on rules governing the use of the royal prerogative. The Serious Crime Bill, which is in another place, will close the gap in our powers to ensure that any British national who prepares or trains for terrorism abroad can be prosecuted in this country as if they had carried out those activities in the UK. We are also confronting the poisonous ideology that feeds, supports and sanctions terrorism—a point made by the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) and referred to by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). As the Prime Minister has said, we are in the midst of a generational struggle against a deadly, extremist ideology, and we will do everything we can, as a Government, to ensure that we have the powers that are necessary to deal with it.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Ukraine, Middle East, North Africa and security.