Scotland Bill

Debate between Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh and Wayne David

Monday 9th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Wayne David]

I think that the obsession with having a referendum at all costs is very sad for the people of Scotland.

[Ms Ahmed-Sheikh]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Wayne David]

No. I have given way four times already.

Sometimes SNP Members have to be told, and I am telling them now. The situation is as I have described it. We are not prepared to have a referendum, and we are not prepared to allow a constitutional debate to be hijacked by the referendum issue in an attempt to manoeuvre the situation and bring about a break-up of the United Kingdom. That is not what devolution is all about, and it is not what the Smith commission was all about. The Smith commission was all about people working together.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wayne David]

We believe that the facts should be allowed to speak for themselves. In our view, the case has not been made and cannot be made, but what we want to see is a transparent, independent body that will reach that conclusion, and we are confident that it will do so. That is why we support the proposal for an independent commission.

[Ms Ahmed-Sheikh]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the shadow Chancellor, who, earlier this year, walked through the Lobby with us to vote for full fiscal autonomy?

[Wayne David]

He did that for his own reasons, and for different reasons. What was obvious to me, and very telling, was the fact that the Tory right and the Scottish nationalists were at one. Representatives of English nationalism and Scottish nationalism went through the Lobby together in their hordes: the nationalists and the extreme right! That says it all, does it not?