Oral Answers to Questions

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Thursday 28th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

Yes. My hon. Friend makes a very good point: this is a matter not just for London airports, but for airports outside London and right across the country, which serve very important international connections.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

I hear what the Transport Secretary is saying about his engagement with airports, but this is also an issue for stadiums, railway stations and other places where the public gather in huge numbers. What discussions has he had with the widest possible range of stakeholders, including local authorities, on the use of drones?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I have updated the House on the issue addressed by the tabled question, namely aviation. Of course, there are wider issues and the Government keep them consistently under review.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

I am grateful for that—even if it was not much of an answer, to be entirely honest. The Secretary of State also briefly touched on another very important issue relating to the threat that laser pens pose to airports across the United Kingdom. BALPA has called for all but the lowest-strength laser pens to be banned. What is his response to that?

[Mr McLoughlin]

As I informed the House a few moments ago, I met BALPA earlier this week. It has come forward with issues about laser pens. There is a bigger problem with laser pens, and much more evidence about the way in which they have been used. It is illegal to shine them in someone’s eyes, and there have been more prosecutions, but I am willing to take further action once we have reached agreement on the best way forward.

Govia Thameslink and Network Rail

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone.

Right hon. and hon. Members will be correct in thinking that nobody has contacted me about this issue. [Laughter.] Actually, that is not true. The only people who have contacted me about it are in this room, and they did so because I am a member of the Transport Committee.

When I was asked to sum up for the Scottish National party on this issue, aside from thinking, “Be still this beating heart”, I had a look through our party’s conference minutes over decades and decades, and I could find no policy on the performance of Govia Thameslink, so I will not take up too much time today.

My predecessor as the Member for Glasgow South, Tom Harris, who is a former rail Minister and a transport enthusiast, once told me that the current rail Minister has the best job in Government. However, having listened to all these complaints about this service today, I am yet to be convinced that that is the case.

I invite all Members who have taken part in this debate to come to my constituency to see the fantastic Cathcart circle, which is much loved, not only by Mr Harris but by another of my predecessors, Sir Teddy Taylor, who I understand opened Cathcart station when it was refurbished.

The final thing I will do today is congratulate the hon. Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin) on raising this issue. I have heard much about the problems with this line since I became a Member of Parliament. He has championed his constituents’ interests, as indeed have all Members who have spoken today.

I will end by doing something I never thought I would do, which is thanking Tony Blair for the fact that the railways are devolved in Scotland.

Assessment of Exhaust Emissions

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Monday 8th February 2016 General Committees

[Andrew Jones]

The hon. Gentleman asked quite a number of questions. I will take the questions on VW first.

The Government first became aware of the installation of software fitted to Volkswagen vehicles to distort emissions testing following the announcement of the US Environmental Protection Agency’s investigation on 18 September last year. We have widely condemned VW’s behaviour and demanded that it take early action to rectify the situation. Our priority is to protect the consumer, to restore confidence in the real-world performance of diesel vehicles and to ensure that VW supports its UK customers.

The VCA has secured an assurance from all automotive manufacturers outside the VW group for which it has issued emissions type approvals that defeat devices have not been used. The Government have called on the EU to conduct a Europe-wide investigation into whether there is evidence that cars have been fitted with illegal defeat devices. We have obviously gone on to test vehicles, and on 10 November, the Secretary of State announced an emissions testing programme to look for defeat devices and to improve our understanding of the real-world emissions performance of vehicles used in the UK. That investigation is vital to restore public confidence.

The VCA, our type approval authority, first reran lab tests for those VW group vehicles for which it had provided approval. Those initial tests provided valuable information for improving our ability to detect a defeat device and strengthened our understanding of the impact on vehicle emissions. To ensure the independence of the testing, the Department is funding the programme and neither the cars nor the testing facilities will be provided by the vehicle industry. We are completely distant from anything in the sector. We are testing 40 vehicles that are representative of a significant proportion of the overall vehicle fleet. The testing is proceeding well and we are using all the facilities we have in our country to make the process happen as quickly as possible, but we are only halfway through it. That is why we have said that the findings will be published in the spring. It would be premature to make further announcements today because we would be doing so only halfway through the programme, which would not be appropriate. We have been clear that we will not provide an ongoing commentary because we will need to conduct in-depth analysis when we have completed the process and ensure that the results are viewed in context, which can be done only at the completion of the testing. I cannot say more than that on the VW issue today.

I emphasise to the Committee, however, that although the VW crisis has brought things more into the public eye, the work on real driving emissions started long before the VW issue was on anybody’s radar, and that will continue. The proposal before us is about testing for all marques, not just one, and for all vehicle fuels, not just those diesel fuels used in the particular type of engine that caused the problem at VW. While VW is a part of this, that is only in the sense that it has brought the issue further into the public domain. On how we can improve performance, we are building on the success and progress that we have had on air quality over some years—we have gone from Euro 3, Euro 4 and Euro 5 up to Euro 6—and these proposals are a step change. I just want to put things in context for Members, because while that issue is related, it is not the key one.

I will now deal with some of the other questions. Provisions for small manufacturers will be discussed and agreed in the package 3 negotiations, which will take place later this year. The UK has already highlighted the importance of the matter to the Commission and is in discussions with manufacturers here, such as Aston Martin.

I can certainly confirm that discussions are continuing with the Serious Fraud Office and the Competition and Markets Authority. They are independent bodies, so it is for them to decide whether to investigate. We are fortunate to live in a country in which politicians do not direct the legal process.

We need to reflect a little on the issue of changes to measurement tolerance, which is a significant factor. The intention, with the first transition step in 2017, is that the conformity factor can be reached through software and calibration changes alone, and a conformity factor of 2.1 has been agreed. That includes any measurement uncertainty.

The second and final step, in 2020, will brings the conformity factor down to 1, which represents parity with the lab test plus, again, measurement uncertainty. Research conducted by the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre examined the various sources of error in on-road emissions measurements. Its conclusion was that there was a worst-case error margin of 0.375, which was why the UK supported 0.4 as a conformity factor. However, some member states argue that other factors that increase NOx emissions in real-world conditions should be taken into account, so an overall figure of 0.5 was agreed.

The Commission has committed to the European Parliament to review the tolerance quickly. We are dealing with new equipment and relatively new technology. The reason why such testing has been used for heavy goods vehicles before cars was simply that the equipment was so big—it could be put in the back of a truck, but not in the back of a car. We are not in that position now as technology is miniaturising. The Commission has committed to a quick review of the tolerance and possibly to moving to much tighter tolerance. We therefore know exactly the direction of travel and there is clear technological progress.

A further question was asked about reviewing our own position on real-world testing, but we have to be clear about what we are asking for before we speak to the European Commission. The Department and chief scientists are considering the matter. Once we know what must be done, we will engage with the Commission and the Joint Research Centre.

On the question of legal challenge, I think that we can be very secure and we have no concerns about that. Our legal opinion is that real driving emissions measures are consistent with Euro 5 and Euro 6 measures. We are not aware of legal challenges on that, and the Commission and the European Parliament are also content. The proposal will complement Euro 5 and Euro 6 testing in a laboratory.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

I promise to be brief. I have two quick questions, following on from what the Minister said about the Serious Fraud Office and the Competition and Markets Authority. Of course he is correct that those bodies are independent and must be able to make their own decisions, but the Secretary of State has the power, when he believes that an illegal defeat device has been used, to impose fines or to take legal action against a company. He has not done so, because he has come to the same conclusion as Volkswagen: what VW installed in cars in Europe does not actually constitute a defeat device. Does the Minister therefore share my disappointment that these new proposals from the Commission do nothing to alter the definition of a defeat device in Europe? Why has the Commission not gone for the American definition, which is much tougher to get around? To implement such a measure wholesale in Europe would show consumers that we take the issue seriously. Will the Minister consider the definition of a defeat device here in Europe? I urge him and the Secretary of State to get it changed quickly.

[Andrew Jones]

Our priority is to protect the consumer and to restore confidence in the real-world performance of diesel engines, ensuring that VW supports its UK customers. We have launched an investigation, and re-tested diesel cars to gather much-needed evidence to restore public confidence and to improve our understanding of vehicles’ real-world emissions performance. We are only halfway through that testing process. We have said that we will not bring the matter to a conclusion or take any further steps until we are absolutely clear about the extent of the problem, but we have not ruled anything in or out. We are still working and are only halfway through the process. On the definition of a defeat device, the real driving emissions proposal includes an amendment to bring requirements on defeat devices in line with those for the USA.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

We have been brought to this point by the soap opera of the Volkswagen scandal and by the fact that one in two cars sold in Europe is a diesel car. This is an enormous public health and consumer issue. I fear that the Government are at risk of sitting on their hands, as we hear that country after country in a list as long as my arm are taking action of some kind against Volkswagen. It is interesting that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield mentioned the Google issue. I worry that the Department for Transport risks being seen to be as feckless as Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs when it comes to standing up for the public interest against big corporations.

Volkswagen, quite simply, has managed to pull the wool over so many consumers’ eyes, but because of the inadequate rules here in Europe, it will probably get away with it. In the United States, Volkswagen drivers are being compensated with $500 in cash and $500-worth of credit vouchers. Here in the United Kingdom, Volkswagen drivers will not receive a single penny. What of the fact that it was a United States authority that caught out a major European car manufacturer? Not a single one of the EU’s 28 member states caught Volkswagen out; instead, it was a Californian authority.

There is undoubtedly some good stuff in the documents produced by the European Commission, but I feel an opportunity has been missed. We have an opportunity to strengthen the proposals. There are some technical elements that need to be strengthened, but really we need to see more from the European Commission to tackle the culture in the car industry and its relationship with testers and regulators across the EU. We must see proposals that put an end to manufacturers being able to shop around in Europe to get the most favourable tester to give them the results that they want. In the Transport Committee we heard evidence from Transport & Environment, a Europe-based think-tank that does a lot of work on emissions regulations. It seems strange that an awful lot of manufacturers go to Luxembourg—a country not exactly known for its car industry. What is going on in Luxembourg? What are manufacturers getting there that they cannot get elsewhere? The proposals do nothing to crack down on that, and that is where the Minister needs to focus his attention in future.

At the moment, 45 lobbyists are working in the European Parliament on behalf of Volkswagen, which over the years spent millions of pounds to get the results it wanted. My goodness, that was money well spent. Look at the result in the Parliament only last week: the right number of abstentions to ensure that these watered-down proposals, which still allow manufacturers to exceed the legal limit on NOx, went through. We must turn the corner and get to grips with an industry that for too long has perverted environmental regulations and treated consumers with disdain—an industry that does not give a damn about regulators because it has creative engineers who help it get around regulations. My fear and that of so many people who are much more qualified than me, whether those who work in the transport sector or those such as the British Lung Foundation, is that that will continue.

This is a major public health issue. We know that pollution from NOx is killing about 500,000 people across Europe every year, so I want to see some enthusiasm from the Government to get to grips with the opportunity before them. The proposals are a good starting point, but the Minister must assure us that he will put British consumers and British public health first by arguing for strengthened proposals. He could give us some confidence by taking a tougher line on Volkswagen than simply stating that it has been naughty, naughty. All of those statements, correct though they are, are a wee bit wet. People expect a bit more from Her Majesty’s Government on this, probably the biggest corporate scandal to engulf the motoring industry for quite some time. For that reason I will oppose the motion.

[Andrew Jones]

We have talked about critical issues in the debate, and it is absolutely right that improving our national air quality is a top priority. We must remember that the wider impacts of poor air quality are equivalent to about 29,000 early deaths in the UK. It is a huge and significant public health issue and that is an important factor.

We must also recognise the progress that has been made in tackling air quality issues by the automotive sector. Responding to challenges from Government and its own desire to improve its performance, the sector has shown creativity and determination in improving its engineering to deliver benefits for drivers and, through them, the rest of our community. We only have to look at the difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 to see the progress made. We are looking here at how we can build on that progress.

I do not think that any Government have been complacent—far from it. However, it is fair to say that there is significant public concern on air quality issues and I share them entirely. The idea that the Government have been complacent is just wrong. In May, we abstained in protest after pressing for the introduction dates to be included in the EU motion. They were not included and we wanted them to be. I remember that particularly well because it was the first decision I had to make as a Minister and it happened about three days after the general election. It is critical to recognise that the Government have been pressing for action, and that started long before I took this job.

Have the reputations of the automotive sector and of Volkswagen been damaged by these events? Yes, it would be ridiculous to suggest that they have not been. We only have to look at the impact on share prices and sales figures to see that there is huge concern.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

The Minister is right to say that the reputation of the auto industry has been damaged. Does he accept that the reputation of regulators in the UK has also been damaged, given that it took an American authority to find out what was going on?

[Andrew Jones]

I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that it was the portable emissions measurement equipment, which has been developed largely in response to the UK and others in Europe pushing for RDE, that actually enabled the investigators to unearth the VW issue in the first place. Europe is the first place in the world to introduce on-road emissions testing. The idea that we have been off the pace, complacent or asleep at the wheel is simply not true.

Has the reputation of the sector been damaged? Yes, it has. Has VW’s reputation been damaged? Yes. For what it is worth, my car has been recalled as part of the process. VW is not quite the company I thought it was when I bought the vehicle, and indeed paid extra for the environmental package as I sought to be a low-emitter driver. I am sure that the sector recognises that its reputation has been damaged. I have had that conversation with automotive industry players and with the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. Real driving emissions testing is part of the answer and the key to recovering trust.

Cycling: Government Investment

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Westminster Hall

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Bone. Like other Members, I congratulate the hon. Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) on securing the debate this afternoon. In his opening remarks, he noted that cycling is an important part of transport policy, and he is absolutely right to mention that. Although there is a good story to tell on cycling across the UK, it could be so much better, as has been highlighted by every contribution made.

There might be a question as to why Scottish Members wish to contribute to a debate on an issue that is entirely devolved, but I hope the fact that Sir Chris Hoy comes from our part of this island puts to bed any question over our interest in cycling.

We are meeting here in the great cycling city of London. On Friday morning, I will take the Eurostar train to Paris. To take my bicycle, I would have to box it up and pay a fee of £30 to get to another great European cycling city. That would cost me more than the ticket cost me to get there in the first place—I happened to find a good deal in a sale, but it is more expensive to take a bike on Eurostar, so I hope the Minister will have discussions about that.

In my constituency in Glasgow we had the Commonwealth games, as a result of which there has been an enormous interest in cycling. Cathkin Braes in my constituency overlooks the entire city of Glasgow. There is a fantastic new development there involving the national lottery and Ardenglen Housing Association to create a new mountain biking facility. The great thing about it is that there is a special interest in making sure that it is available to local people and not just the middle-class, middle-aged men who we have heard about this afternoon. I invite all Members in this debate to come to Menock Road in my constituency and look at some of the hellish cycle lanes put down by Glasgow City Council. They will have to cycle through bins, bus stops, lamp posts and people’s driveways to have a safe cycle up and down that street.

The ambitious target in Scotland of 10% of all journeys being made by bike is an example to the UK Government. My hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry) has already outlined some of the things the Scottish Government are doing and the fact that cash has been put in place to get more people on to their bikes. There is therefore no need for me to rehearse that, but it is something that central Government and devolved and local government can work well on, so that we start to look more like European cycling cities than we do at the minute.

The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) rightly mentioned the Dutch example, which has been an excellent example of a cycle-friendly place for many years. I think Members of all parties want to see the UK Government catching up with that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Trains to London Bridge, and other Thameslink trains, are benefiting from a massive upgrade costing some £6.5 billion. Obviously there will be difficulties at certain stages of the line’s reconstruction, but once it is finished it will be a far superior line, and it will benefit from the new trains that will come into service in the spring.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

The proposals on emissions standards that were published yesterday by the European Commission give us a real opportunity to turn a corner and get to grips with an industry that has been circumventing environmental regulations for too long. Will the Secretary of State assure us that those proposals will not become a bargaining chip in the Prime Minister’s renegotiation, resulting in watered-down outcomes?

[Mr McLoughlin]

We want to consider the Commission’s proposals very carefully, and that is what we will do.

Cost of Public Transport

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Jim McMahon), and welcome him to the House. I also congratulate him on the thumping that he gave UKIP at the by-election, which was pleasing for all SNP Members. I regret, however, the rather infantile manner in which his party has approached the debate.

I would never trust the Tories with the railways, but, frankly, I would not trust Labour Members with a train set, given the way in which they have conducted themselves this evening. The mistake that they have made in their motion is a schoolboy howler. They have accused the Scottish Government of not using a power which that Government do not have, and which, moreover, every single Labour Member—with the exception of the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton—voted explicitly, along with the Conservatives, to prevent Scotland from having during the debate on Scotland Bill. They almost give brass necks a bad name.

In all seriousness, there are two things that my constituents would want me to mention tonight. The first is smart ticketing. It is about time that people travelling by rail or bus, or both, were able to experience their journey right from the point of payment in a way that befits the century they are travelling in. People want to be able to use apps on their smartphones to make life easier, rather than hanging around queueing for a piece of paper to allow them to travel.

My second point, which I have made many times in this Chamber, relates to HS2. We want to see Scotland connected to London and to the great cities of the north, irrespective of our constitutional opinion, because London is our closest world financial capital. We want Scotland and London to benefit from greater connectivity. We want the United Kingdom to up its game so that we can have a high-speed network that serves the whole of the British Isles and not just a small part of them. We need to catch up with France, Spain and China and we need to take the high-speed debate seriously. Like the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), I regret that we have not had enough time for a serious debate on these issues. I can only hope that we will have such an opportunity soon.

Airports Capacity

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Monday 14th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I should give one, just to put the record straight. The HS2 route has undergone considerable improvement, much of which my hon. Friend has campaigned for, and he has got his own way on what he wanted in his constituency.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

It is like something straight from “Yes Minister”. “What do we want?” “Airport expansion!” “When do we want it?” “At the appropriate juncture, in the fullness of time” —after umpteen inquiries, reports and working groups, and a cost of millions of pounds to the taxpayer, all for a by-election in Richmond Park. “He used to be indecisive, but now he’s not so sure.” Will the Government get on with it, as the country expects us to?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am still waiting to hear—it should be such a simple, easy answer—what the SNP’s position is on this matter. Which scheme do SNP Members support? They are silent on it. They want everybody else to give their answers, so that once the decision is made they will attack it and say they would go down a different route. That seems to be the only point of the SNP in this Chamber: to wait for a decision to be made, then attack it. No wonder SNP Members are in such a difficult position today.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman represents a cycling city that I am proud to visit, but I have yet to see him on his bike pedalling past our front door when I am up there—but I am sure I will soon. I completely refute his assertion, however: we have made incredible progress on cycling. He need only drive in to see the chaos created by the Mayor’s east-west cycle highway being delivered in the city with the highest level of cycle spending historically. That is the cycling ambition target now being reached in eight other cities. I want to reconfirm that we have ensured that every mile of new road built will be cycle-proof, which is something Labour neglected to do.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

7. What progress his Department has made on identifying a location for a UK spaceport.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Andrew Jones)]

As the Prime Minister told the House a few weeks ago, it is the Government’s ambition for the UK to become the European hub for commercial spaceflight, and we hope to launch the competition to select the location for the base in the second half of 2016.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

It has long been believed that Prestwick airport was the only place in the UK visited by none other than Elvis. It is an area in desperate need of attention and economic investment. Will the Minister follow in the king’s footsteps and pay a flying visit to see how the Government can help regenerate that vital airport in the west of Scotland?

Airports Commission: Final Report

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

This is the issue that will not go away. Ever since I was elected to this Parliament, everywhere I go people want to know what we think and what will happen—not on Scottish independence, although that issue might not go away for some time, but on the extra runway at Heathrow or Gatwick. I congratulate the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr Mathias) on securing this debate. She made a forensic case in her opening remarks, and she is a credit to her constituents for doing so. She focused on the economic issues, noise and environmental questions, and she spoke very well as she made her case.

I cannot mention all the speakers who contributed to the debate, but I would like to focus on a few of them. It would be remiss of me not to begin with the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) and the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith), who has now rejoined us. This was the second mayoral hustings that I have sat through; the first was in a Westminster Hall debate on London taxis. I expect that both of them will be debating this issue for some time over the coming months. They highlighted a number of concerns with the report, and it is obvious from their statements that they are both equally passionate about London. I wish them both well as they seek to deal with this in more detail.

During the speech of the right hon. Member for Tooting, the most amazing thing occurred: the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin), who is no longer in his place, broke out as an ally of the Scottish National party—it surprised me probably as much as this will surprise him—when he used the line, “Why is it all about London?” That is the point from which we come at this. Although we understand that London is Scotland’s closest global financial hub and that we have to have a relationship with it, whether Scotland is part of the UK or not, we must not lose sight of issues relating to regional airports, to which I will return.

The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) raised serious concerns on behalf of her constituents, and did so excellently. The right hon. Member for Saffron Walden (Sir Alan Haselhurst), whom I met on my first day in this House, when he gave me a few hints and tips on how to deal with some Members, said that Stansted will be “engraved” on his heart. As it is him, I will avoid the obvious joke about Tories having hearts and instead say that he gave a thorough and historical analysis of the wider airport expansion debate, and that this debate was all the better for it.

My hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands), who has had to leave us early, rightly stands up for and praises Glasgow airport, which has become my second home over the past six months. I am sure the whole Chamber will wish to join me in congratulating it on being crowned UK airport of the year. He rightly asks the Government to clear up any confusion as to whether this will be deemed an English-only matter, and I hope the Minister will do that.

The right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Sir Simon Burns), who kindly gave us new Members our induction in this very Chamber when we were first elected, gave an excellent speech. He illustrated the frustration, clear among Members from all parts of the House, that plagues this whole issue, and of course did so authoritatively, as a former Transport Minister. The right hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert), for whom I have great respect, also spoke with authority, demanding that we treat this as a national issue, and saying that that should be what guides us, as opposed to local concerns. I have to say that local concerns must be given consideration, although I agree that the issue is of national importance.

It was of course over this very issue, in the last Labour Government, that the shadow Chancellor protested in this Chamber by using the Mace. We may be the noble savages, but I have no ambition to do that this evening. We will of course hear the Labour spokesman’s remarks in a few moments, but I want to give some comfort to the shadow Chancellor, who, unfortunately, is not in his place this evening. I found a quote from one Chairman Mao, who once said, “To rebel is justified.” [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Simon Kirby), who sits on the Treasury Bench, still has his copy of the book.

As for the hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), where do I begin, Madam Deputy Speaker? He spoke with his usual passion and authority in a good-natured but rather surprising contribution. I am delighted that he believes, along with the SNP, that this is not an English-only matter, and we should have a say on this; he has aligned himself solidly with the interests of the SNP and the people of Scotland as far as this debate is concerned, so for that we are grateful. My fellow Transport Committee member, the hon. Member for Flyde—

[Mark Menzies]

Fylde.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

I will get there one day; it is normally hon. Members from south of the border who struggle with these things, rather than those from the north of it. The hon. Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) is a strong and staunch supporter of Blackpool airport in his constituency, and I know he has spoken out in other debates in the House on that, as he did today. He again mentioned the importance of securing regional connectivity. That is something the Government could do, and we will be pressing for that through public service obligations. I would be grateful to the Minister if he addressed that this evening. That is a concern not just for us in Scotland, but in other parts of England, such as the north-east.

Earlier this year, in their “Programme for Government”, the Scottish Government announced the setting up of three innovation and investment centres across Europe—in Brussels, Dublin and London. That gives Scottish firms an opportunity to do business on a world stage, which we have not always been good at, right here in London. As I have said, London is our closest major financial centre, and we will examine this decision forensically. At the moment, we remain agnostic, and we will seek to get the best possible deal for Scotland and for our constituents. The frustration is there, and the Government must make a decision.

London Black Cabs

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Tuesday 15th September 2015 Westminster Hall

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. Some hon. Members may be questioning the relevance of the London black taxi service to my constituents in Glasgow South. However, it is clear to me from the debate so far that there are lessons that we can learn in Scotland so that we do not end up in the position that people in London find themselves in today. I therefore congratulate the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) on initiating this important debate on one of London’s and, indeed, Britain’s most iconic symbols—the black taxi.

It has also been a pleasure to sit through—I had not expected this—what may be the first London mayoral hustings, here in Westminster Hall this morning. If the hon. Gentleman and the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) can have debates that are this consensual, they have a good election ahead of them.

The Uber phenomenon has yet to hit Glasgow and, indeed, Scotland, but I do not doubt that it may well do so in the future, so I genuinely approach this debate in the spirit of trying to learn something. I hope that we can use it to inform ourselves in Scotland, as we have entirely separate licensing of taxis and minicabs that in many ways is not dissimilar to the licensing here in England and Wales.

Taxis are a vital part of our city infrastructure and national life. The hon. Member for Kensington (Victoria Borwick) gave the example of the London Olympics, when black taxis came into their own. We had the same experience during the Commonwealth games in Glasgow. Along with our public transport services, black taxis and their drivers were there not just to ship people around, but to welcome people to the great city of Glasgow.

If I may, I will make one comment on taxi drivers in my home city. Glasgow taxi drivers are the most knowledgeable and most friendly people—aside from one or two Members of Parliament perhaps—who visitors to the city of Glasgow can meet. They have great humour and great local knowledge. Based on the colour of the football top that someone is wearing when they enter the taxi, they will even know which routes to avoid when they are there. I have always found that taxi drivers are great for providing that wonderful thing that the metropolitan media and the pollsters always get wrong—political analysis. Speak to any taxi driver, whether in Glasgow or London, and believe me, they will give their views on Scottish independence and, indeed, any other political matter of the day. These people have put their entire working life into being not just a car service, but a welcoming service to whoever comes through those doors. I think that Parliament owes it to taxi drivers not just here in London but across the UK to get this right.

The right hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark Field), who unfortunately has left the Chamber, suggested that less regulation of black taxis could be an option. My experience suggests that that is not what black taxi drivers themselves want. Indeed, they enjoy the gold standard that comes with being a black taxi driver. The right hon. Member for Tooting mentioned the importance of someone knowing that they can safely put their daughter into one of these vehicles. Indeed, my own mother would never travel in any kind of vehicle other than a black taxi, although she usually prefers it if her son is picking up the bill!

The right hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster talked about choice; indeed, consumer choice was mentioned by a few speakers. Choice cannot come at the expense of knowledge, safety, proper insurance and proper training. In fact, there is a whole argument to consider in terms of the investment put into Uber’s drivers. What it should have is a well regulated and unionised workforce. The answer, of course, is not to ban Uber, or any other private hire vehicle service, but to bring it in line with what the public expect from any other transport provider, whether that is black taxis, the underground or buses.

The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) mentioned recent allegations of homophobic or racist abuse in Uber cars. We would not expect that or put up with that if it happened on a bus, on the London underground or, indeed, in any other public service, and these minicab companies cannot expect to operate outside that expectation.

[Victoria Borwick]

Another important thing to talk about when we are considering the difference between the two kinds of vehicle is that there have also been incidences of guide dogs not being taken in minicabs. For the record, I think it is important that we ensure that any taxi driver of any taxi that we license should take such assistance dogs.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

The hon. Lady’s point is absolutely correct and I thank her for making it.

To return to my point on what we do about Uber, which appears to be the bogeyman in this debate, we need to look at ensuring that the wages of its drivers are properly regulated and properly enforced and that the training on health and safety and local knowledge is there. It is obvious that Uber is not going to go away, so this could be a turning point for transport in London depending on how we respond to it.

We must create a proper choice to ensure that there is not a cowboy operator not just operating in London but, potentially, coming to my home city. The technological challenge that is presented to us with the rise of minicab apps is something that Parliament and Government, local authorities and devolved Administrations must get right and must catch up with. The risk of not doing so is great and there for all to see. As I mentioned earlier, the ancient tradition of black taxi driving and all the service that those drivers provide us with means that we owe it to them to get this right; and we in Scotland look forward to learning something from London’s experience.