Housing Benefit (West Ham)

Debate between Steve Webb and Lyn Brown

Monday 22nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Steve Webb)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) on securing this important debate and on her track record of raising such issues in the House—as she said, from the Government Benches, which are indeed still here. I agree with a good deal of what she has said in the past about the issue. Two years ago she told the House:

“My message is that the housing benefit system is in desperate need of reform.”

She then quoted one of her constituents, who had said that they were

“trapped in benefits, prevented from returning to work—all my wages would just go to pay the rent and I would be worse off.”—[Official Report, 5 November 2008; Vol. 482, c. 293-94.]

I suppose I was hoping that today she would come up with some suggestions for how housing benefit should be reformed to address those problems. In anticipation of her speech, I checked what the Labour manifesto said on the subject. Surprisingly, I found that I entirely agreed with that as well. It said:

“Housing Benefit will be reformed to ensure that we do not subsidise people to live in the private sector on rents that other ordinary working families could not afford.”

The basis for one of the key reforms to which the hon. Lady referred and which has most impact in Newham is the switch to paying rent based not on the 50th percentile, which is the current regime, but on the 30th percentile, which is more or less the typical rent for a low-income working household. That seems to be, almost verbatim, the policy on which she stood at the last election and which we are now implementing. Yet she is saying that the impact of that will have the single biggest impact on her constituency because the cap overall has relatively little impact, and that she now opposes that policy. I am not entirely sure that that is consistent.

The hon. Lady was critical of the universal credit, which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has proposed and which is designed to address just the sort of barriers to work that she is worried about by reducing withdrawal rates, albeit relatively modestly, and reducing barriers to work so that when people such as her constituents take jobs they will know that they are better off. I hope that on reflection she will be more charitably disposed to those reforms.

I will not dwell at length on the reasons for the reform, because time is limited, but it is true that cost is one. Housing benefit costs have risen by £1 billion a year in each of the past five years, partly due to the recession, but also to rising rent levels, so there is a need for action. But the issue is not just about cost; it is about fairness. The hon. Lady did not address why it is fair that someone on benefit, albeit not through any fault of their own, should have a wider choice of properties than someone in a low-paid job, and that is how the current system works. That is the current regime.

[Lyn Brown]

My basic tenet is that it is not possible to exist with the universal cap level and pay the rent of a London property, whether it is a two-bedroom flat over a fish and chip shop in Green street, or somewhere a little more palatial, perhaps further out. The taper in the benefit system, which the Minister rightly said I spoke about previously, is a disincentive for people who are trying to work, but we now have a cap and there will be no opportunity for them to negotiate their rent downwards. I cannot see how the reform that the Minister talks about will improve matters at all.

[Steve Webb]

With respect, the hon. Lady is conflating about three different changes. The universal credit is nothing to do with the cap. It is a separate proposition, and the details are yet to be announced. We have already announced exemptions, and people in work who receive working tax credit will not face the cap at all. That is part of the response to her point. No one in work and receiving working tax credit will be affected by the overall benefit cap, nor will anyone on disability living allowance, but the details have yet to be worked out. The universal credit—not the universal cap—is a separate reform designed precisely to address the points that she raises.

I shall try to respond to some of the more specific issues that the hon. Lady raised about her constituency. Our estimate is that in her borough of Newham, 32% of properties in the private rented sector will be available to people on local housing allowance.