Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies (Environmentally Sustainable Investment) Bill

Debate between Steve Double and Andrew Lewer

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 11th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Lewer]

A more general answer to that extremely specific question is that it is important to have realistic goals and targets in country, so that those sorts of ways of trying to get around things are avoided. That is why commitment and passion need to be mixed with pragmatism and realism in seeking targets that are actually achievable.

[Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)]

Before my hon. Friend moves on from that point, does the conversation that just took place not highlight the fact that there is little value in the UK reducing our carbon emissions to zero if we do not take other developed countries around the world with us? This is a global problem, and the UK eradicating carbon emissions in isolation from everyone else will have little impact globally.

[Andrew Lewer]

That does indeed highlight the importance of leading by example, so long as that example is a significant carbon reduction coupled with a successful economy, rather than wholesale carbon reduction done in a way that leads to economic problems, which would lead to other countries deciding not to follow the example for obvious reasons.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Lewer]

That is absolutely true. Although, of course, there are some things that are labelled green in which I have complete confidence, others cause serious concern for the reasons outlined.

[Steve Double]

My hon. Friend is being very generous. I cannot miss this opportunity to highlight the potential of lithium extraction in Cornwall being linked to geothermal energy, which will in itself be totally sustainable and carbon neutral. These are the ways in which the UK is leading the world in green technologies, which will help the UK to be a world leader in these things.

[Andrew Lewer]

My hon. Friend’s commitment to his constituency and to this particular area is well known, and that was a well-chosen opportunity.

Another of my worries is that the Bill does not achieve what it sets out to. There are concerns that it could reduce the ability of co-operatives and community benefit societies to invest in green sectors. In its current form, the Bill would restrict rather than extend societies’ potential to take on mission-aligned investments for environmental purposes. If the intention is for more societies to raise more capital for environmentally beneficial activities, the legislation should provide capital-raising options that are useful for many societies in many contexts, rather than the limited number of circumstances to which the Bill limits it.

I am also aware of concerns that green shares—the main aim of the Bill—might unintentionally create a capital instrument with similarities to a mini bond, as has already been touched upon. That is something else that causes some difficulties. When Her Majesty’s Treasury’s review into regulatory arrangements, which includes mini bonds, is completed, the Government will need to carefully consider its findings before passing legislation that would in essence create capital instruments with similarities to those mini bonds.

Having been drawn in two Prime Minister’s Question Times in a row—this week and last week—and been drawn first for both private Members’ Bills today, I will not push my recent considerable luck any further, Madam Deputy Speaker, and will conclude. I am persuaded that the proper and right way to push towards the development of further green financial instruments is through a full consultation, which would give all parts of the sector a chance to put their views and the Government the chance to listen before considering introducing similar draft legislation. In some respects, I support the main ambition of the Bill, as do many of my colleagues, but in its current form, without extensive engagement with the sector, and for the reasons outlined in my speech and in some of the interventions, there remain some unanswered questions.