St Patrick’s Day: Irish Diaspora in the UK

Debate between Steve Baker and Martin Docherty-Hughes

Thursday 14th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Steve Baker)]

I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. Alas, not every debate in the House inspires the same spirit of collegiality and a shared celebration as this one. It is a sign of its quality and pleasure that the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Dame Siobhain McDonagh) has stayed in the Chamber to listen to the rest of it. I am grateful to her for chairing the earlier part.

It is a real joy for me to respond. I thank the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Dame Karen Bradley) for securing this timely debate to celebrate St Patrick’s day and the contribution of the Irish diaspora, which hon. Members have talked about so skilfully today. The hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) began her speech by talking about St Patrick being a traveller between these isles. As far as I am aware, that is my only connection to Ireland: I grew up in Cornwall and the Saints’ Way from Fowey to Padstow was—perhaps mythically—a route trodden by St Patrick. As a Celtic Christian myself, it gives me some pleasure to respond to this debate.

I had the pleasure of travelling to Northern Ireland for some years before my appointment to the Department, and since then I have been grateful for the opportunity to travel both to Northern Ireland and the Republic. As the hon. Member for Putney said, many people will get to be just a little bit Irish for one day only, and she is right that that speaks volumes for our integration. Like her, I have been made extremely welcome in Northern Ireland and in the Republic.

We are fortunate that we have robust and productive forums for co-operation and dialogue, which we attend alongside the Irish Government. Since being in post, I have attended three plenary sessions of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly in Cavan, Jersey and Kildare, and four meetings of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, as well as the annual British Irish Association conference. Those forums are critical to our formal friendship.

I turn to the speech made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands. She was right to pay tribute to our friend James Brokenshire—a great Northern Ireland Secretary. I also recognise what my right hon. Friend said: it is one of the greatest honours to be a Minister for the Northern Ireland Office and for Northern Ireland. I particularly recognise the welcome we are extended. She also mentioned the depth of hope and expectation placed on us. The whole debate and particularly that contribution remind us of the importance of politics and how each of us conducts it.

I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s work as co-chair of BIPA. She has made me very welcome—indeed, she made it clear that if I did not attend she would be making me very unwelcome, probably in the House. I also pay tribute to Brendan Smith, who has made me extremely welcome. I am grateful to him for that.

I have just realised that I unfortunately skipped past the response that I owe the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles. I really enjoyed listening to her speech and she was absolutely right to acknowledge the hon. Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) as a champion of our relationship with Ireland and she has also given me guidance along the way. The hon. Member for Salford and Eccles gave us a remarkable and magisterial survey of the immense contribution of the Irish diaspora to the UK. I hope she will not mind me saying that I was surprised and very pleased to hear my late Conservative association president, Sir William McAlpine, cited. She will understand that he, as the most Tory of Tories, would have been both honoured and slightly amused that the hon. Lady cited him. Of course, Tony Lloyd moved a similar motion in 2022. As we have heard today, he is much missed on both sides of the House, and no doubt on both sides of the Irish sea. I congratulate the hon. Lady on her wide-ranging, witty and touching speech, which I much enjoyed.

I will now turn to our new and, if I may say so, already reset relationship with Ireland. I am very grateful to the former Tánaiste, Simon Coveney, to the current Tánaiste, Micheál Martin, and to the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, for their continued efforts to improve, further and strengthen British-Irish relations over the last few years. The Secretary of State and I have put a great deal of effort into that relationship, which I believe has paid dividends. I will return to the issue of legacy, which I do not propose to elaborate on further today, but it is important that we make progress for the sake of all the people on the island of Ireland and, indeed, across Great Britain.

I am pleased that the bilateral relationship is strengthening, and I agree with Micheál Martin’s view that it is fundamental to both the United Kingdom and Ireland that we have a great relationship of equals, which we can carry forward in a spirit of family. To that end, I want to pay tribute to Mr Martin Fraser, the Irish ambassador to the UK. I do not think he would mind me saying that he is a very able statesman and diplomat, who I have enjoyed working with immensely. He is a man of great humour but also great sincerity. While we were in the process of resetting our relations through the Windsor framework, he argued in a speech that this was always a family dispute, and that we were always going to get through it and make up. I think he was right in that, and it is a theme I would like to elaborate.

I would like to say a very deep and heartfelt thank you very much indeed to Mr Martin Fraser for all that he has done, as well as making a number of us welcome at the embassy last night for a few halves of Guinness, which some of us are still recovering from. He is ably supported by the deputy head of mission, Orla McBreen, and I was grateful that she attended the earlier part of this debate. In the interests of Anglo-Irish relations, I ought not to repeat my claim that the stout produced by the Rebellion brewery in my constituency is better than Guinness, but it is possibly too late. I would certainly see that as a family disagreement that has been largely placed behind us, which I think is reflected in the spirit of the debate we have heard today.

The peoples of Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have a long and complex shared history, which has not always been easy, but we have realised that there is more we share than that which divides us. It is often said that the Irish never forget our shared history, and the English never remember. Alas, that is the case. I just want to put on record that I am very grateful to my friend, Éamon Ó Cuív, for his work in helping me to understand Irish history from the Irish perspective. He has been a great source of inspiration for the idea that this relationship could flourish in the future in a spirit of goodwill.

For many, the route taken from Ireland to the UK has been to seek work and opportunity, particularly in times of hardship. As an engineer myself, I am struck that many of our greatest civil engineering achievements are a standing monument to the efforts of so many Irish people who built this United Kingdom. The NHS is stronger for the contributions of many Irish nationals who serve here today and have done since its founding. The most recent statistics on this, in June 2023, showed that nearly 14,000 members of NHS staff were Irish, including doctors, nurses and support staff.

It is important to reflect on the great service and sacrifice of so many Irish people during the first world war, and like others I share the admiration for the laying of that wreath. Many have remarked that the post-war rebuilding and recovery of Britain would not have been possible without the efforts of Irish hands, and I am glad to pay tribute to the manifold contributions of the Irish diaspora as part of this debate.

I will now turn to the common travel area, which will be a great context for reflecting on the contributions we have heard from Members. The flow of people, energy and ideas between both islands continues unabated. Whether it is by inventing, leading or making, we continue to make one another richer in every sense of the word—economically, socially and culturally. That historic and close relationship has been enshrined in the common travel area arrangement, which has existed for over a century and is now also protected in statute. That special status enables citizens to live and work freely across both islands. The common travel area provides reciprocal rights to live, work, study and access health and welfare services. Those CTA protections reflect the unique nature of life on the island of Ireland.

The UK Government take seriously our commitments to protecting and upholding the common travel area. It is not hyperbole to say that the CTA is central to the UK and Ireland’s enduring social and cultural ties. In recognition of those close ties, I am delighted that the Government are supporting amendments to the British Citizenship (Northern Ireland) Bill, introduced by the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), which would make it easier for people from Ireland who are resident in the UK to become British citizens.

I very much enjoyed the speech of the hon. Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna). She is an absolutely formidable parliamentarian, as I remember from her first days in this House. She mentioned isolation and discrimination. It is a sad fact remembering how people were treated in the past—I am grateful that things are now very different. She mentioned that Ireland is a global cultural superpower, and of course she is absolutely right. I hope people will not mind me saying that of course Northern Ireland is a crucial part of the overall island’s cultural record. She particularly talked about the importance of embracing “or both”. I have seen that at work. It is important that we should be comfortable in who we are and in our identity, whichever part of the UK we live in and whatever our identity may be. That brings me to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton North East (Mark Logan).

My hon. Friend invited me to speak Ulster Scots, but I have to tell him that I am notorious for my poor language skills. Since I have established a reputation for being able to say Tánaiste—thank goodness I said it right that time—and Taoiseach, I do not think I should spoil my record my attempting any Irish today. I would be grateful if he would try to teach me some Ulster Scots later. He reminded me of when I went to the Discover Ulster-Scots Centre, where I met the CEO Ian Crozier— I do not think he would mind me saying this—and asked him, “What does being Ulster Scots mean to you?” After only the briefest pause, he said, “Everything,” and I could see the feeling that he had. For people like me—my parents were from Hampshire and I grew up in Cornwall, with no particular sense of it other than from growing up as a child in that place—it is important to recognise that for others, their identity is everything. We should ensure that we respect and embrace identity, and that, as the hon. Member for Belfast South said, we make it possible for people to be both/and.

My hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) requested that we fly the flag of St Patrick over Government buildings. I will certainly consider that request, but I have to tell him that I have lost too many friends in Unionism already to risk losing any more.

The hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) paid tribute to the large diaspora in her constituency. She explained the craic, for which I am grateful to her; she said it means, “Even when you lose, you still have a party”—I wonder if she has been bugging my kitchen table. I will leave it to others to work out what I am getting at. She mentioned St Brigid, and I am grateful to her for prompting me to put on record my admiration for the female leadership that I have seen in Northern Ireland. There is an amazing range of truly inspirational female leaders right across all sections of Northern Ireland, from promoting social capital and reconciliation between communities through to the highest levels of business. It has been really humbling and inspiring to meet those ladies. It is right that we remember St Brigid too.

The hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) mentioned the Irish Cultural Centre and reminded us that we can have a good day out to see the paintings illustrating “Ulysses”. Perhaps the Irish-Scots drum might be taken along by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton North East.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North—

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

That’s not me.

[Mr Baker]

I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon?

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

West Dunbartonshire!

[Mr Baker]

I am so sorry; I do beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon. I have a temporary Parliamentary Private Secretary, but he has become temporary in more than one way. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman unreservedly, but he made a very good and important speech, and I was grateful to hear it. I have often stood in Northern Ireland looking across to Donegal, and he reminds me that I should visit.

The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) made a point about familial and ancient ties, and of course he is absolutely right. If English MPs have a fault, although they may be few, it is that too rarely we consider the importance of all parts of this United Kingdom. These past few months and years have been a reminder that every MP in this House and this United Kingdom should pay close attention to all parts of the United Kingdom, and indeed should remember the history that we have together. The hon. Gentleman mentioned poverty, and I remember with great sadness, sorrow and regret the impact of the famine on Ireland. He reminded me that “what we do in life, echoes in eternity”, as someone once said in a movie. We may not be able to set right the injustices of the past, but his speech reminded me that we can certainly avoid perpetuating injustices today and into the future. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the manner in which he set that out in his speech.

Economic ties between us have been elaborated on in the course of this debate. I just add that, in the four quarters to 2023, Ireland was the UK’s third largest export partner and the 10th largest source of imports. Beyond those statistics, those close economic ties are demonstrated by the contribution of Irish businesses to our economy, as pointed out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands. She may not have mentioned Kerrygold, but I was expecting her to mention it—