Local Government Finance Bill

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Wednesday 31st October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Helen Jones]

Absolutely right, and because of that there is real doubt among local authorities about whether they can collect payments from people who have never had to pay anything before and simply will not have the money to pay. Treasurers are predicting collection rates of only about 40% or 50%, and local authorities predict huge deficits because of the likelihood that they will not collect most of the money. What, then, are local authorities to do? Will they take people to court when they know that they do not have the money to pay? That would carry a huge cost to recover a small sum of money.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is helpfully shedding a lot of light on an extraordinary mess. It has been widely reported that it is the product of a spat, a huge row in Cabinet between the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, who wanted to promote localism and show that something of a localist character was happening, and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, who wanted sensible reform of the welfare system. Unfortunately, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government won. Is that my hon. Friend’s understanding of how we have got into this completely indefensible mess?

[Helen Jones]

My right hon. Friend may well be right. The Government seem to be able to get into a mess quite easily. The problem is that the people on the receiving end of their decisions are the poorest and most vulnerable in our community.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Timms]

On the point of simplicity, many of us, including Government Members, sat through the Welfare Reform Bill debates, in which the simplicity of universal credit was presented to us as a great advantage. This change undermines that simplicity—fatally, it seems to me. As the director of the Social Market Foundation said in an article this morning, under this proposal

“not only will you need a computer to work out your benefit entitlements, you’ll need a map”.

[Brandon Lewis]

Coming from a party that had 32 different benefits to work through, I find that quite an amazing comment.