Afghanistan and Pakistan

Debate between Stephen Gilbert and Barry Sheerman

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gilbert]

My hon. Friend makes a perfectly valid point, which is why I was encouraged by what our right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said earlier today. For every member of our forces leaving, there will be two local people taking those responsibilities forward. If I may touch briefly on recommendation 35 in the report—

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Stephen Gilbert]

No, I will not.

[Mr Sheerman]

This is a very important point.

[Stephen Gilbert]

No, I am afraid I will not.

[Mr Sheerman]

I am sorry, but—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman has said several times that he will not give way.

[Stephen Gilbert]

I note that the hon. Gentleman has not been in the Chamber for the debate—

[Mr Sheerman]

The hon. Gentleman was very disagreeable—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. It is up to the Member who is speaking whether he wishes to give way to another Member, and the hon. Gentleman has said that he is not going to give way because of the time pressures.

[Stephen Gilbert]

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. In the final minutes I want to look at some of the lessons that the report suggests we can learn for our actions and activities in Libya. The report says that we need a co-ordinated approach to post-conflict stabilisation, which is something that we have perhaps not succeeded in adopting in all the instances where our forces have been deployed in the past, particularly Iraq and Afghanistan. If we are truly to deliver a legacy in Libya that is worth the risks that our brave men and women are taking in that country, recommendation 35, which deals with the need for co-ordinated action, is crucial. We cannot have Departments squabbling over who is leading on post-conflict Libya or from which budgets post-conflict Libya will be helped. Departments need to work together and with their international colleagues. That is one of the key lessons that we can take from this debate.

Overall, the report—along with our international commitment—makes it clear that we as a nation cannot choose the history we live in to meet our budgets; rather, our budgets must be capable of meeting the history in which we find ourselves. We are a member of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, and I am concerned that our contribution to that organisation will fall over the course of this Parliament to below the international minimum standard of 1.9%. Never again must the forces that we deploy be short of the tools that they need to do their jobs.

[Mr Sheerman]

I just want to explain why I was trying to intervene. The hon. Gentleman made the sweeping statement that we failed in Iraq. I was in the House at the time and voted for the Iraq war, and I do not believe that what we did to remove Saddam Hussein was a failure. The hon. Gentleman said that Iraq was a failure; I do not believe it was right for him to say that this afternoon.