Tax Avoidance (HSBC)

Debate between Stephen Doughty and David Gauke

Monday 9th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

As my hon. Friend says, £31 billion has been raised from large businesses as a consequence of HMRC’s compliance activity. That underlines our determination, and HMRC’s determination, to collect the tax that is due under the law.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister remind the House how much the Chancellor said would be raised by the Swiss tax deal, how much has actually been realised, and why he thinks the Chancellor got his sums so wrong, as he has in relation to so many other issues?

[Mr Gauke]

It was forecast that we would raise about £3 billion. The amount that we have raised so far is just short of £1 billion, and we expect that to rise to £1.2 billion. Other measures that we have introduced have raised more than the forecast amount, and that £1.2 billion would not have been raised had we not entered into the deal.

Finance Bill

Debate between Stephen Doughty and David Gauke

Monday 1st July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

The reasoning remains what it always was. HMRC has a large number of specialists on the UK tax system, and the UK tax system does not apply in other countries. Assessing whether a particular arrangement constituted tax avoidance in Tanzania, to pluck a country at random, would require a detailed understanding of the Tanzanian tax system. If the hon. Lady is asking whether we could train up somebody to learn an awful lot about the Tanzanian tax system, in theory that could be done, but it would be a better use of HMRC resources to help train the Tanzanian tax authority, so that it was in a better position to collect the taxes that are due. Indeed, that is exactly what we do; we provide a lot of support to the Tanzanian tax authority.

[Stephen Doughty]

The Minister will recall our debates on this issue in Committee. I am afraid that I still do not buy the arguments that he makes, just as I did not buy them then. Does he not understand the disappointment felt by the many campaigners on this issue? The Enough Food for Everyone If campaign said that Treasury Ministers’ refusal to consider the amendments put forward in Committee, which are very similar to new clause 12, was shocking. There is a real contrast between the Prime Minister’s big words at the G8 and what is happening in practice. This is a reasonable new clause, and campaigners just do not buy the arguments.

[Mr Gauke]

It is not just me saying this, and there is no desire to be unhelpful. Indeed, the Government’s record on building up tax capacity in developing countries is very good, with regard to providing them with technical assistance so that they gain a better understanding of the tax that they could collect. Indeed, we are providing support to help developing countries to make greater use of the new information exchange positions.

I will again quote Richard Murphy, whose views on these matters tend to differ profoundly from mine. He works closely with the non-governmental organisations, and he has said:

“I admit, I have never seen how extending DOTAS internationally could work. I can’t see how HMRC could know if they got accurate data, or none at all and as such can see no way such a scheme could be enforced in which case I admit I can’t see how it could ever be workable.”

I do not often pray in aid Richard Murphy, but he makes that point not from any desire to limit the help that we provide to developing countries but as a matter of sheer practicality. He makes a reasonable point.