Business of the House

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn]

I thank the Leader of the House for giving us the business.

You may be a tad surprised to see me in this position, Mr Speaker, because for the past 26 years I have been a Back Bencher by choice—not just my choice, but the choice of the past five leaders of my party. Today, however, I am here for very positive reasons, as part of a diversity project in my party at which we have done splendidly. There are now far more women on the Front Bench and in Parliament than ever before—although not enough—and far more ethnic minorities, but there is currently a total absence of octogenarians. I believe that my appointment to this post will be a trailblazer which will lead to an all-octogenarian shortlist in the party, and will make the wealth of experience and wisdom among my fellow octogenarians available to the House. It is important for us to have people here who can remember life before there was a health service.

I note that the Wales Bill will be back in the House on Tuesday, and I hope that the Leader of the House has abandoned his curmudgeonly attitude to it. He has dismissed the idea of allowing both the beautiful languages of the House to be spoken here. Speaking Welsh has the same status as spitting on the carpet: it constitutes disorderly behaviour. However, Welsh has been used in Committees of the House when they have been held in Wales, and, at nugatory cost, it could be used here. There is no reason to obstruct the will of most Welsh Labour Members, and Conservative Members as well. A number of Conservative and Labour Front Benchers are now Welsh-speaking. It is a sign of the great health of the language. It is marvellous to recall that Welsh was an ancient sophisticated language centuries before English existed. In fact it was spoken, as was Gaelic, at the time when the ancestors of those who created English were pagan barbarians who painted themselves blue with woad and howled at the moon from the top of mountains. This really must be taken seriously.

There are also lessons from the football field about leaving Europe that the Government would do well to heed. The English team Brexited swiftly and ignominiously; Wales remain, with honour. I appeal to the Leader of the House for his party not to dismiss the very sensible idea of having a second referendum, which is supported by one of the candidates in his party’s leadership election. There are good precedents for this in the EU, which has a splendid tradition of keeping voting until you reach the right decision. It happened in Denmark and two other countries where they held a referendum and a year later reversed the decision. The reason is that people voted on false agendas. Where is the £365 million for the health service? Where is the emergency Budget?

The public are rightly outraged by the mistruths they were told by the propagandists on both sides. It is not a surprise that we have a petition of historic dimensions—as big as the petitions of the Chartists and suffragettes—put before this House. There are 4 million signatures and counting, of people who say they were deceived by the vote—by the propaganda—and which was largely determined by the proprietors of the daily newspapers, rather than by a sensible realisation of the horrors to come. So it is quite reasonable that, after the issue has settled down and when a new alternative comes along—we have been told it will take five years—the public should have the right to have their views considered.

It is timely now to look at the role of the independent adviser on ministerial interests. This man is virtually unemployed. He has looked at only one case in the past five years, and that involved a baroness who confessed to a minor misdemeanour. There have been six other cases since that have not been reported to the adviser because the only person who can report them is the Prime Minister. Two of them occurred a year ago and involved the Cabinet Office Ministers who gave £3 million to Kids Company in spite of the published advice of civil servants not to do it. Kids Company went bankrupt three days later. That is surely a matter to be considered by the adviser.

Another far more serious matter is of current concern. Some five years ago a Secretary of State for Defence stood down and the then adviser on ministerial interests, Sir Philip Mawer, recommended that the case should be heard by him. The Prime Minister decided it should not be, and the Minister involved achieved absolution by resignation. He left the job and nobody knows what he did—what was so serious that he had to leave office. The problem is that that person is now offering himself not only as leader of the Conservative party, but as Prime Minister, and it is a matter of concern to all of us that we know what happened and why he left that job. The first question one would ask anyone applying for a new job, particularly one as Prime Minister, is “Why did you leave your last job?” and we do not know.

Next week is going to be dominated by one event: the publication of the Chilcot report. The Prime Minister gave no information about that yesterday in his answer to the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond). We must remember, as the report comes out, that Parliament is on trial. It was not just one man; it was hundreds of MPs, three Select Committees of this House, the military and the press who were in favour of joining a war in pursuit of non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Those who saw the very moving programme on BBC2 featuring Reg Keys will understand the true cost of war. For the last seven years, he has not been able to—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is an immensely experienced parliamentarian, and I know that he is just beginning his apprenticeship in this role. I always enjoy listening to him because he speaks with great experience and huge passion, but let me gently say to him that he has exceeded his time. It is his first time at the Box, and I do not wish to cut him off, but he must now bring his remarks to a conclusion, maybe with a couple of pithy questions. Then we will have had our dose for today.

[Paul Flynn]

I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker.

My question is: what is the programme that will allow the loved ones of the 179 soldiers who died to have an opportunity to present their case? We know that those who are likely to be accused by the Chilcot report have already employed lawyers to go over their defences. We want to ensure that Parliament takes responsibility for a decision taken in this place in 2003 that resulted in the deaths of 179 of our brave soldiers, probably in vain, and the deaths of an uncounted number of other people. Chilcot must be debated fairly. What are the arrangements for doing that?

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[Chris Grayling]

There is also some advice for a Speaker in waiting, which might be entirely appropriate for the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), who now has plenty of time to concentrate on preparing his campaign. Although we want to see him in his place for many years to come, we know that he is already getting his campaign team together.

I absolutely agree with the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) on one point. This week we are all Welsh. I suspect that that even includes our good friends on the Scottish nationalist Benches. There is regret among the English over the result last week, and perhaps on the Scottish side over the qualification period, but we are all gunning for Wales to get to the final and do us all proud as a nation. We wish the team well, and we are all keeping our fingers crossed. We are all absolutely behind them.

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point about the history and traditions of the Welsh language, although I cannot quite imagine him and his colleagues dancing around covered in woad. I have to say to him that it has been decided many times over the years that the language of this place is English and, as I have already indicated, I do not propose to make any changes to that.

The hon. Gentleman asked about a second referendum. I am afraid that it just does not work like that, just as I am not going to ask for a rematch between Iceland and England. The people have spoken. We have had a referendum and we have the result. That is democracy. If we have a general election and our side loses, we do not get another go a month later. We had a four-month debate, with arguments from both sides and huge amounts of information being set before the nations of this country to enable them to decide one way or the other. They have reached their decision, and it is now our job to follow that decision and to deliver the will of our people. I have to say that, after four months of hedging my bets and not always speaking for the Government on this matter, it is nice to be back and to be able to speak clearly for the whole Government in saying that we now need to get on with the job that the British people have given us.

As for the independent adviser on ministerial interests, the hon. Gentleman wants more investigations, but it could just be that there has been no basis for such investigations. If Members have concerns about the conduct of other Members, there are ways and means available to them within the procedures of this House. If the hon. Gentleman has concerns about what has happened, he can use those channels, but they should be used only when there is a genuine matter to investigate. It is for the Prime Minister and the adviser to decide what should happen. If they choose not to act, it is possible to pursue issues in the House.

Lastly, the Chilcot report is of course a matter of great seriousness. We of course recognise how important it is that we understand what happened and why it went wrong, but no one can say at this stage that the process has not been exhaustive. I wish that the report had been published years ago. I have agreed with the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond) on many occasions that I wanted to see the report published and that is now happening—thank goodness—and not before time. There is not a single person on these Benches who does not wish that it had happened a long time ago, but it is going to come out next week. We will shortly set out plans for how it will be debated in this House. It is right and proper that lessons should be learned, what happened should be considered and issues should be fully debated.

[Mr Speaker]

I am of course proud to have written the preface and to have hosted the launch of the most recent publication by the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). It was a very happy occasion indeed.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

The Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee is unfortunately unable to be here, so he has asked me to convey to the Leader of the House that, as a result of our great queue of Back-Bench business, we now how sufficient debates, including those announced by the Leader of the House, for six full days before we rise for the recess. I therefore trust that the Leader of the House will allocate some more time to the Backbench Business Committee so that we can honour all the applications.

This weekend sees the annual Al Quds Day demonstration. It ends in London and has increasingly become anti-Semitic, with some absolutely disgraceful slogans and flags of terrorist organisations being flown on the streets of Britain. It is paramount that the Government ensure that if anyone is guilty of committing a hate crime in that way, those people should be arrested and should face the full force of the law. I want the Leader of the House to ensure that that happens this weekend.

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[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

May I tell the Leader of the House that the contribution of my somewhat younger parliamentary colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), is an illustration of how the “Dad’s Army” here is always willing to give whatever assistance is necessary when firm leadership is lacking on both sides, as it is at present? On a more serious note that arises from various exchanges about the referendum result since Monday, would it not be useful for us to have an early debate on the alienation and resentment that are felt in so many parts of the country—certainly in the black country boroughs—which led, to a large extent, to the slight majority for leaving the EU? In the past few months and perhaps longer, the House of Commons has not understood sufficiently that feeling of resentment and alienation.

[Mr Speaker]

I ought to congratulate the hon. Gentleman, somewhat belatedly, on his recent birthday. Off the top of my head—if I am wrong, he will tell me—I think his birthday was last Sunday.

[Mr Winnick]

Indeed. One more step towards the century.

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[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

May we have a debate in Government time on the involvement of celebrities in politics? On referendum night a week ago, the pro-remain American actress, Lindsay Lohan, in a series of bizarre tweets, slagged off areas of this country that voted to leave the European Union. At one point she directed a fierce and offensive tweet at Kettering, claiming that she had never heard of it and implying that no one knew where it was. Apart from the fact that it might be the most average town in the country, everyone knows where Kettering is. It is famous as the home of Weetabix breakfast cereal, and Cheaney and Loake shoes, and Kettering Town football club has scored more goals in the history of the FA cup than any other football team in the country. Will my right hon. Friend support my invitation to Lindsay Lohan to come and switch on the Christmas lights in Kettering this Christmas, thus redeeming her political reputation and raising money for good causes?

[Mr Speaker]

In my mind, Kettering is principally famous for the hon. Gentleman.

[Chris Grayling]

As those of us who have children will know, Lindsay Lohan, a star of child and teen movies, who was a very entertaining actress at the time, has not necessarily fulfilled her professional potential over the years, and perhaps now we know why, because had she visited Kettering, she might have seen her career turn around. She should accept my hon. Friend’s invitation, visit the fine town of Kettering and find herself returned to stardom.