John Bercow
Main Page: John Bercow (Speaker - Buckingham)(10 years, 7 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Speaker
Before I call the Chair of the Transport Committee to make the Select Committee statement, it might be helpful to the House if I explain, again, briefly the new procedure, to which it agreed recently and first used last week. In essence, the pattern is the same as for a ministerial statement. Mrs Louise Ellman will speak to her subject for up to 10 minutes—there is no obligation to take all that time—during which no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of her statement, I will call Members who rise to put questions to Mrs Ellman on the subject of her statement and call Mrs Ellman to respond to those in turn. Members can expect to be called only once. These interventions should be questions and should be brief. Front Benchers may take part in the questioning, although it would be seemly for them to hold their horses, as I am keen first to hear the contributions of Back-Bench Members.
Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)
I congratulate the hon. Lady on taking part in this procedure, which is new and must be a little daunting. Perhaps she will forgive me for thinking that I was listening to another Government Minister presenting a report. I find it surprising, after two years, that the Transport Committee, whose role it is to scrutinise the Department for Transport, has produced a 27-page report—eight pages of which list contents, so it is probably a 19-page report—on what is, in effect, the largest infrastructure project in the western world. I hope her Committee will be returning to the subject again and again and asking the right questions.
Why did the Committee take oral evidence only from the supporters of HS2 or paid Government consultants, when there were 29 others who responded, including many of those who expressed criticisms of HS2? If the hon. Lady is so concerned about the control of costs, why is she advising the Government on how to spin their lines on cost by suggesting that they refer to a £28 billion sum, rather than the £50 billion that has been budgeted? If she is aware of the risks, as she said in her statement, can she tell me whether she has read all the Major Projects Authority reports on this project, and if so, can she tell us more about what she plans to do to identify those risks that are still being concealed by the Government?
Lastly, if Sir David Higgins has been asked to find ways of reducing the cost of HS2, and if the hon. Lady’s Committee has asked him to consider building phase 1 and phase 2 concurrently, and incorporating the Heathrow link in phase 1, what examination has she made of the effect of that on the bottom line of this project which—forgive me if I say so—may be pushing the price tag up even further?
Mr Speaker
I gently remind the House that the latitude that I thought it appropriate to extend to the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) in the previous set of exchanges was exceptional and should not now be mimicked by other right hon. or hon. Members.
Mrs Ellman
The right hon. Lady raises a large number of questions. I will attempt to answer some of them, but I am mindful that other hon. Members wish to make a contribution and ask their questions in the limited time available to us.
I am aware that the right hon. Lady has a long-standing opposition to the project and that she is assiduously putting forward the concerns of her constituents. However, this is a national issue and I remind her that this report is a follow-up to a major inquiry conducted two years ago, where independent consultants were appointed to conduct new research into the specific alternatives put forward as possible replacements for the HS2 proposals. The recent inquiry considered 33 pieces of written evidence, in addition to the evidence we heard, and the issues raised in those written pieces of evidence were used as a basis for questions to the witnesses we had in front of us. We also questioned Sir David Higgins before his appointment to HS2 Ltd and we will continue to do so.
Costs are important, and it is important that those costs are broken down, so that people can see the individual components. Yes, I have read the reports, and ultimately those reports must be analysed against the need to provide continued capacity for the increasing demand on the line from passengers and for freight. This is a continuing process and the Committee will consider what further work it intends to do on this, together with the very detailed work that will take place on the hybrid Bill, should approval be given for that to go forward.
Mr Speaker
Order. The fact that the hon. Gentleman sought to intervene on the Chair of the Transport Committee when I had indicated at the outset that the procedure was analogous to that of a ministerial statement, in which hon. Members should not intervene but rather wait their turn, suggests to me that he was not present at the outset to hear my wise words. Moreover, I have since been advised that he did indeed beetle into the Chamber a couple of minutes into the hon. Lady’s statement. The concepts of the hon. Gentleman, on the one hand, and brass neck, on the other, are by no means unrelated. In a spirit of Christmas generosity, on this one occasion I shall allow him to put his question, which I think he wants to hear and which he imagines that perhaps the House might also wish to hear.
Mr Sheerman
My office is a long way from here, Mr Speaker, and I ran as fast as I could. I apologise to you and to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman). She knows that I am a great admirer of hers and of the work of her Select Committee, and of Select Committees in general.
My hon. Friend also knows that I started off as a passionate supporter of HS2 until I started reading the international research that suggests that rather than empowering regional cities and making them more affluent and wealthy, such projects have the opposite effect and would drain even more power and influence away from the regions towards London and the south. The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills came out with a very similar view this morning. Did my hon. Friend take evidence about that research, and did she take evidence from the former Chancellor of the Exchequer? Why did she put so much emphasis on KPMG? Those of us who live in Yorkshire and saw what it did—or failed to do—in the banking sector do not trust KPMG further than we can throw it.
Mr Speaker
Order. In respect of this new procedure, I said to the House that an hon. Member may expect to be called only once. However, as the House will know, just occasionally hope can trump expectation. I call Mrs Cheryl Gillan.
Mrs Gillan
A very happy Christmas to you, Mr Speaker, and to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who has dealt with the questions with charm and a great deal of skill. This is merely a point of clarification. In response to my earlier series of questions, the hon. Lady said that she had read the MPA reports on HS2. Can she confirm that that is the case?