Public Services (Social Enterprise and Social Value) Bill

John Bercow Excerpts

Friday 19th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman cannot raise that at this point. It should have come before, and it did not. What is required now is an indication of “now”.

[Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)]

Now.

Second Reading.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Baker]

Of course, we all value society. The right hon. Lady may know of the Cobden society. We gleefully reproduce Cobden’s words:

“Peace will come to earth when the people have more to do with one another and the government less.”

That is precisely the point: when the people have more to do with one another and the Government less. I fear that we are here today to discuss how the Government can have more to do with creating a strategy for that most delicate system of relationships—human social co-operation. Of course, we all value relationships and society, but we differ—it is a fine point, but probably the one about which we have argued most sincerely for more than 100 years—about the extent to which state power should be used to intervene in the dynamic process that is social co-operation. It seems to me that we have moved on—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to the hon. Gentleman that interventions, even when they constitute a kind of philosophical musing, must be brief?

[Hazel Blears]

I am grateful, Mr Speaker. I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker). If his idea of building a strong and vibrant society is leaving people on their own to get on with it and sink or swim, I entirely reject that. I genuinely believe that the best society is a partnership between active and enabling government—nationally and locally—and the ideas, innovation and passion that local people bring. When a commitment to support people from government and the passion and entrepreneurial spirit of local people are brought together, something really special is created. If they are divided, and we say, “Government must do this in a monolithic way” while local people are left on their own, unsupported and unsustained, we do not get the synergy that makes a difference to our communities. I therefore fundamentally reject the hon. Gentleman’s comments.