Finance (No.2) Bill

Debate between Simon Kirby and Kelvin Hopkins

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The problem with charity is that only nice people give to it. The great thing about tax is that it applies to everyone equally, which is the way things should be.

[Simon Kirby]

The hon. Gentleman’s argument, interesting though at first it may appear, is totally busted when we look at France. Hordes of rich French people are coming to pay tax in this country rather than in France. The net effect is worse than if the taxes had been lower in the first place.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I am one of those who would like to see a little more insulation between countries on financial matters, rather than a free flow of finances across borders, but I am a traditional leftist and Keynesian. I am not of the same mind as those who believe in breaking barriers and people having complete freedom to do exactly what they like with their money anywhere in the world. I hope that one day we will return to a more sensible approach.

The problem with tax is not the tax rates but the collection. For a long time we have seen vast amounts of tax not just avoided but evaded. The thick end of avoidance is the thin end of evasion. The precise line between avoidance and evasion is ill-defined, and I would like stricter rules so that a lot of what is now called tax avoidance is defined as tax evasion. If we sent one or two of the big tax avoiders and tax evaders to prison, it might concentrate a few minds and bring in more tax. The research on behalf of the TUC by Richard Murphy shows that, in his view, the tax gap is in the order of £120 billion a year. If we collected a fraction of that sum, we could solve all our problems, including the famous deficit. I am very much in favour of reviewing the effect of tax changes.