Growth and Infrastructure Bill

Sheila Gilmore Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gordon Birtwistle]

I thank the shadow Secretary of State for his observation. My name is on the amendments tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) and I am waiting for the Minister to answer the questions they raise. I am sure he will give us some advice. If a the jobcentre advertisement for a job makes it clear that it involves giving away rights in return for shares, the person going for it will know that before they apply and will be completely open to the idea. If the jobcentre does not advertise those conditions, and the applicant is told about them only when he goes in for interview, my concern is whether he will still get his benefits when he tells the job centre the conditions he has been offered. I hope that the Minister will advise me that that applicant will still get their benefits, and if he does not I shall be extremely concerned and will have to consider which way to go. However, I am sure that the queries raised by our amendments will be answered.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman does not appear to be aware that even if someone refuses to go for an interview for a job because they have read the details and seen that they would have to give up their rights, they could be sanctioned—that is, they could lose benefit—because of that.

[Gordon Birtwistle]

The hon. Lady will be anxious to hear the Minister’s answer to that question, which our amendments put to him. We have tabled the amendments to tease the answers out of him—if she had proposed an amendment, she would have received an answer to her question, but she has obviously merely turned up today to try to stir things up.

Amendment 41 will, I hope, clear this question up. I hope the Minister can give us an answer, and if he does not we will have to ask other questions at another time. My main concern is about an applicant who is sent for a job by the jobcentre and finds out only when they arrive that it is a share-ownership job. Will their jobseeker’s allowance be affected if they refuse it? I am reasonably confident that it will not.

This will only happen in small niche companies. I do not think that we have the right to stand in the way of people who wish to get involved in such businesses, to get on, to take a gamble or to be involved in a company that will grow, so that their £2,000-worth of shares grows with it. There might well be a second Google somewhere, but I do not want to tell people that although they might have wanted to make those decisions, I did not want to give them the opportunity. That is why I support these proposals.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fallon]

I am happy to make it as clear as I can. By the way, I think that it is somewhat unlikely that the jobcentre applicant in this case will be offered a significant number of shares and then still find himself unable to take up the position. Let us be clear about how the jobcentre system works: these decisions about sanctions are taken on an individual, case-by-case basis. What I am announcing tonight is that the guidance will make it very clear as to the reasons that the employee had to have before having his benefit sanctioned.

Let me turn to the second point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove, which is the only really serious issue about this new employment status. As he and my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley have said, it is a voluntary status. No one on the Government Benches wants employees to be pressurised, harassed or bullied into accepting it. We therefore want to ensure that no individual can be coerced into accepting an employee-shareholder contract. Throughout all the discussions since the policy was announced, there have been concerns that existing employees—not new employees, but existing employees—might be coerced into accepting these contracts. I have been very clear that the new status is entirely voluntary, but I wholly accept that it needs to be seen as such.

Amendment 40, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove, seeks to ensure that existing employees are not coerced into the new employment status. The principle behind the amendment is right and the Government support that principle. Indeed, we think there is a stronger way of ensuring that no detriment will arise in the Bill than by relying on secondary regulation, and that is why we have tabled amendments 64 and 65.

Government amendment 64 creates a new right not to suffer detriment if an employee refuses to sign an employee-shareholder contract. This means that if an employee has been overlooked for promotion or has been disadvantaged in any other way because of that refusal, he may then be able to present a claim to an employment tribunal.

Government amendment 65 creates a new unfair dismissal right. This means that if an employee is sacked because he has refused to accept an employee-shareholder contract, this will be regarded as automatically unfair. Importantly, both these rights will apply from day one of an employee’s contract. That means that employees are protected from the first day of their service. I want to place that beyond doubt. Employees cannot be taken on and then, on day two, be forced to become employee shareholders.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Will the Minister give way?

[Michael Fallon]

I will not, because of the time.

Finally, let me turn to amendment 59, tabled by Opposition Front Benchers, and deal with their opposition to the clause. I have already outlined how the creation of the new employment status adds to the existing statuses of worker and employee. The new status gives companies a new way of taking on individuals, giving both companies and individuals greater choice and flexibility. Removing the clause in its entirety would remove the opportunity for new flexibility and choice for companies. Using the new employment status, just like using the existing status of worker and employee, is a choice for both companies and individuals. By increasing the range of employment statuses, companies limited by shares will have a greater choice about how to grow and adapt their work force. It will also create opportunities for an individual to take up an employment status that may allow them to share in the rewards of a company.

It is for the company to decide what type of contract will be most suitable for it to offer, depending on its requirements and circumstances. The clause does not prevent employers from offering more rights to their staff, such as a contractual right to request flexible work or contractual redundancy pay, just as they can now do with all other existing employment contracts.

This is not about taking away employment rights; it is about creating a new employment status with a different set of rights, just as there are different rights associated with being an employee or a worker. This Government want companies and people to share in the risks and rewards that share-ownership offers, and this is a new way to do so. The clause should remain part of the Bill, to give people and companies a new way of working together, and I urge the House to reject Opposition amendment 59.