Leaving the EU: Customs

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. As Members can see, a large number of colleagues want to participate, so there will be a four-minute limit on Back-Bench contributions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con)]

The Minister for the Cabinet Office put very well the argument about why we need to keep Cabinet confidentiality. It is an essential part of what the Government of the UK should be doing whenever they are negotiating a treaty or any international matters of substance. Quite frankly, it is an absurd idea that this House should be making them look over their shoulder at every single step and unsure about how to proceed.

This Humble Address procedure is archaic and it is being abused here. It is actually quite a childish approach. Before its recent incarnation, it had not been used since the middle of the 19th century. At the beginning of the 19th century, there was absolutely no way that Parliament would seek to get the reasons, the tactics and the assessments of our military commanders at Waterloo or Trafalgar. It is quite absurd that this Parliament now should be trying to undermine the Government’s negotiating position.

Our constituents depend on our Government being able to negotiate well on our behalf. They rely on our Government, and confidentiality in these discussions is needed to allow the Government and civil servants the space to make arguments without fear or favour. That would certainly be at risk if this process continues to be abused.

The terms of the motion do not even stand up. I would like your advice, Madam Deputy Speaker, on whether the motion in these terms is in fact valid. As I understand it, this type of Humble Address is designed for the Privy Council, or for a Secretary of State and departmental documents; it is not designed for the Cabinet.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Let me just reassure the hon. Gentleman that the motion would not be on the Order Paper if it was either out of order or invalid.

[Mr Fysh]

Obviously, I accept that position, but may I just say that that is not what it says in Erskine May? [Hon. Members: “Oh!”] I am just reflecting—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is not questioning the judgment of the Chair.

[Mr Fysh]

Indeed I am not. I would never do that. What I am saying is that there is a provision in Erskine May for Parliament to seek an order of the House to release certain documents. I accept that this may be a grey area—an evolving area—of parliamentary procedure. None the less, I genuinely think that it goes to the heart of what the Opposition are trying to do. They are simply trying to undermine the Government’s position and the national interest of our country. That is truly unacceptable and they should withdraw their motion.