Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 Section 3(5)

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Wednesday 16th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Robin Walker)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Report pursuant to section 3(5) of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, which was laid before this House on Monday 14 October.

On 9 October, the Secretary of State published a report updating information on progress on Executive formation, transparency of political donations, higher education and a Derry university, presumption of non-prosecution, troubles prosecution guidance, and the abortion law review. It is the second report published on those issues in line with our obligations under the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019.

I believe that the shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd), has raised some concerns with the Leader of the House about the availability of the report. I apologise for any confusion, but I can confirm that it was available online on gov.uk on 9 October. Copies of the report were also available from the Vote Office on 14 October, the first day on which the House sat following its publication.

Let me first take this opportunity to welcome the inclusion of the Bill on historical institutional abuse in the Queen’s Speech. I was personally very pleased to note its inclusion, having heard the poignant testimonies of victims and survivors shared by Members on both sides of the House. I look forward to working with colleagues across the House to ensure that the Bill is passed, so that we can begin to see redress for the victims of this awful legacy.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

The Minister will be aware that victims of historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland were very disappointed on Monday when the Bill to provide them with compensation did not feature in the Queen’s Speech itself, but was tucked away on page 113 of the background briefing notes. However, in fairness to the Minister, victims’ spirits will be lifted today by the First Reading of that essential Bill in the House of Lords. For the benefit of the victims, will the Minister outline the timetable for the completion of the legislation in the House of Lords and in this place?

[Mr Walker]

I think we can all welcome the fact that the Bill is being introduced and is moving forward. I am afraid that I do not have the full details of the timetable, but I will seek to consult colleagues in the Lords and, perhaps, write to the hon. Lady. I join her in paying tribute to the victims groups, about whom we have heard a great deal from Members throughout the House, and who have waited so patiently for redress and worked so constructively with those involved in the Hart inquiry, and with officials and politicians.

Let me now turn to the talks. The House should be in no doubt of the strength of our resolve to get Stormont back up and running. In the weeks since the first report was published, the Secretary of State has intensified his work with the Northern Ireland parties—particularly the two largest parties—to seek solutions to the remaining issues, which include rights, language and identity. He has continued to work closely with the Tánaiste, in accordance with the three-stranded approach, and the British and Irish Governments share the view that there remains an opportunity in the coming days to reach an accommodation. Indeed, the Secretary of State is not here in person to open the debate because he has decided to stay on in Northern Ireland tonight to continue to engage with the parties this evening.

The people of Northern Ireland have gone for more than 1,000 days without an Executive and Assembly, and I, along with colleagues throughout the House, do not want that stagnation to continue. Northern Ireland needs effective decision making, and its people deserve progress on key issues, including many that have been raised in the published reports.

Northern Ireland

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Monday 7th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Robin Walker)]

I beg to move,

That the draft Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointment Functions) (No. 2) Regulations 2019, which were laid before this House on 11 July 2019, be approved.

May I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, what a pleasure it is to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin) at the Dispatch Box? He was a superb Parliamentary Private Secretary and a superb Whip, and he is already showing that he is a natural at the Dispatch Box.

This statutory instrument will allow for certain critical appointments to be made under the terms of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions) Act 2018. I am very glad that we have been able to bring it forward today. I know that Northern Ireland Members have been calling for it to be brought forward for some time.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I should just like to put on the record my enormous gratitude to the Minister, a very fine Minister and a great addition to the Northern Ireland Office, for making sure that this very important statutory instrument has been brought before the House today. As he will know, because I have scolded about it, the unlawful prorogation of Parliament by the Prime Minister on Monday 9 September meant that this statutory instrument, which was due to be debated in this Chamber on 10 September, did not get addressed. I am therefore enormously grateful to the Minister for ensuring it is here today, earlier than anticipated. It had been thought that it might have been delayed even more to 21 October. Thank you to the Minister.

[Mr Walker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for making that point. She raised it on a number of occasions and we have been very keen to bring this statutory instrument forward at the first opportunity.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 Section 5

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Monday 30th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point. I was going to come to the actions of the PSNI in my closing remarks, but let me congratulate it on its work. It is clear that, while the legislative framework is slightly different in Northern Ireland from that in the UK, it is enforcing the law actively, which sends an important message to the traffickers. He will recognise that the report relates to specific support under the law of Northern Ireland, rather than to the issue of who is arrested and for what, but his point is very valid, and certainly I am unstinting in my praise for the work of the PSNI in protecting the victims of trafficking and indeed protecting the whole of society across Northern Ireland.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I welcome the Minister to the Northern Ireland Office. He did a superb job in the Brexit Department and I am absolutely delighted, as I am sure is everyone, to have him in the Northern Ireland Office, though we regret that we have to share him with the Scotland Office.

I am grateful to the Minister for his praise for the work of the PSNI—it is right that he praised it—but I am concerned about the aftercare for those trafficked. There is a growing number of particularly women but also men who have been trafficked and rescued—thank goodness—by the PSNI. What happens to them afterwards? Does the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland have a record of those who are deported? More to the point, are they allowed to stay in Northern Ireland and given settled status when they are rescued from the horrible ordeal of being trafficked?

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Lady makes a powerful point. I want to come to the elements in the report that focus on the support to victims of trafficking—that is what it is really focused on. It is important that we send a message, as we have done in our many discussions in the wider debate about human trafficking in this place—that the victims should be protected and reassured wherever possible that their rights will be respected. I join her in acknowledging that.

The number of referrals has gone up, perhaps as a result of greater awareness of the issue and increased reporting. Tackling modern slavery is a key priority for the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland and, as we have discussed, for the PSNI, and I commend them for the work they have done with other Departments that have significant roles, such as the Department of Health, which is responsible for child protection.

I know that across the statutory agencies and civil society organisations with which the Department is working there is a group of hugely committed and dedicated people who are pursuing offenders, providing essential support to victims so that they can rebuild their lives, and actively raising awareness or trying to reduce demand.

EU Exit Day Amendment

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Wednesday 27th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. He and I have always agreed that we need to do this process properly and that is what this SI is all about.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Is not the reality of the situation that, while we affectionately refer to the withdrawal deal as the Prime Minister’s deal, it has been signed by 27 other EU member states? It is signed and it is not going to be unsigned: the deal is done. There is only one deal and that is the Prime Minister’s deal. The extension that we need to vote for tonight is very short. We absolutely have to get behind this Brexit deal, get it through, get the implementation period and move on. The deal is not going to be reopened by the other 27.

[Mr Walker]

As I often find, I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Lady. That is not the sole point of this SI, of course, because it allows for two specific scenarios, but—

Government’s EU Exit Analysis

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Wednesday 31st January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Since the Conservative party governs with the support of the 10 Democratic Unionist party Members—of whom I am not one—I am very curious to know whether any Member of the DUP will have advance notice of this economic analysis ahead of the Select Committee or, indeed, in addition to the Select Committee.

[Mr Walker]

The simple answer is no. We would make this information available to the whole House on the same basis, while responding to the points on confidentiality that are covered in the Opposition motion.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Committee: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend make a good point on the exact matter that I was going to come to in a moment; she pre-empts me brilliantly.

Clause 8 is needed—I think that this answers the point made by the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich—because not all the UK’s international obligations that might be affected by withdrawing from the EU are implemented domestically in what will be retained EU law. Those which are implemented elsewhere are therefore out of scope of the correcting power in clause 7. In addition, there are restrictions on the use of clause 7 relating to, for example, taxation that might, in some circumstances, prevent important changes to comply with international arrangements from being made. We need this power because we need to be prepared for all eventualities.

I would like to clarify that any SIs made under clause 8 that transfer a legislative function, or create or amend any power to legislate, will be subject to the affirmative procedure, as provided for in clause 7. Therefore, Parliament will be able to debate any transfer of powers, and consider the proposed scope of such powers and the scrutiny proposed for their future exercise. Clause 8 gives Ministers a temporary and limited power, as my hon. Friend the Member for Fareham (Suella Fernandes) said, to make regulations to prevent or remedy breaches of international obligations. The provision contained in the secondary legislation must be an appropriate way of doing so and will have to pass before this House under the parliamentary procedures that we have been discussing over the past couple of days. In addition to its limited goals, the power is subject to a number of further limitations. It expires two years after exit day and, as listed in subsection (3), it cannot “make retrospective provision”, create certain types of criminal offence,

“implement the withdrawal agreement, or…amend…the Human Rights Act”.

[Lady Hermon]

rose—

[Mr Walker]

Perhaps I can respond to the hon. Lady’s intervention before she even makes it. It is important that we have the power to maintain all our international obligations. As we have discussed in a previous debate, one of those international obligations is to the international element of the Belfast agreement. We will absolutely maintain our commitment to that.

[Lady Hermon]

I am grateful to the Minister for pre-empting the intervention, but he is referring to my earlier intervention regarding clause 9. Will he use this opportunity to confirm at the Dispatch Box that neither clause 8 nor clause 9, which we have just passed as amended, will be used in any circumstances to amend the Good Friday agreement by regulation?

[Mr Walker]

I am happy to give that confirmation. As I said to the House of Lords Constitution Committee earlier today, no one has any intention to amend the Good Friday agreement.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Committee: 5th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 6th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

If my right hon. Friend will give me a moment, she may be interested in what I have to say next.

I do appreciate the enormous effort that the hon. Member for North Down has put into drafting new clause 70, but we could not currently accept it. There are some concerns around it. It goes further than requiring Ministers and devolved Departments to have regard to the key principles. Subsection (4)(a) would require the Secretary of State to refuse consent to reserved provisions in devolved legislation unless the provision is necessary only as a direct consequence of the UK’s exit from the EU. This would place a much greater constraint on the provision than can be made for Northern Ireland as compared with the rest of the UK, even in circumstances where there is no impact on the Belfast agreement. As I said earlier, this Bill cannot be used to amend the Belfast agreement. It would create doubt and uncertainty on the use of these powers if we suggested otherwise. The Northern Ireland Act can be amended only in the very limited circumstances that I have already addressed.

I therefore urge the hon. Lady to withdraw the motion, but to work with us. We will work with Members across the House to absolutely ensure that the Belfast agreement is respected as we move forward.

[Lady Hermon]

I have a very high regard for the Minister, but I have to say that I am profoundly disappointed by what he has said. I am not a legislative draftsman. Technically, there may be difficulties with this new clause, but, for goodness’ sake, the Government absolutely have to put the principles of the Good Friday agreement into this Bill. That is where the Government need to stand with all the people of Northern Ireland and say to them that, even if we are leaving Europe, as we are doing—Brexit is going to happen—we are not going to allow that decision to undermine the sterling work and the peace and stability of the Good Friday agreement. I am pleading with the Government to give a commitment that they will look at the technicalities, and change the technicalities, but accept this new clause this afternoon.

[Mr Walker]

Our commitment to the Belfast agreement is absolutely clear. We are committed to it. We are not changing it as a result of this Bill. The Bill would not allow us to do that. We are protecting the Northern Ireland Act in this Bill. We will work with the hon. Lady and with hon. Gentlemen and hon. Ladies in all parts of the House to secure the legacy of the Belfast agreement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Walker]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who chairs the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs. I was pleased to give evidence to his Committee the other day on the importance of these issues. I can assure hon. Members across the House that we absolutely have put the importance of no hard border in Northern Ireland and the importance of our commitments under the Belfast agreement at the heart of our approach from the beginning.

[Lady Hermon]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way once again. I have to say to him ever so gently but firmly that that is a high-risk strategy. The message will be sent from the House that there is no support in the Government for the principles of the Good Friday agreement if that is not taken up—[Interruption.] Would the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) give me a moment? It would be enormously helpful—it is the principles of the Good Friday agreement: that is what new clause 70 embodies. It does not expand on them—it reflects the principles of the agreement—so will the Minister, instead of putting that high-risk strategy to the House, give a clear commitment that he will take away my new clause and work on it, with a view positively to reflect the tone and spirit in which it was drafted in the first place?

[Mr Walker]

I absolutely give the commitment that we will take away the hon. Lady’s new clause and will ensure throughout the whole of the process that we protect the principles of the Good Friday/Belfast agreement. That is something that we are absolutely committed to doing and I can tell the hon. Lady that nobody in this House will be voting against any principles in the Belfast agreement. It is crucial that we make that point clear.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lady Hermon]

This has been a wonderful debate, and I greatly appreciate the contributions from all sides, even when they disagreed with new clause 70 and even when they were made by Members of the DUP who disagreed with new clause 70. Despite my disappointment, which is real, and that of other Members, the greater objective is to maintain the Good Friday agreement and its respect and integrity, and to ensure that we do nothing in this House that gives succour to dissident republicans or increases the risk of terrorism. I will therefore not press the new clause to a vote.

I will, however, accept the very nice invitation to tea with the Minister, but I do not just want tea and buns. I want a commitment from him now—I want him to intervene on me—that the Good Friday agreement will be preserved in some other form, if not today.

[Mr Robin Walker]

I give the hon. Lady that commitment. The Good Friday agreement is an absolute commitment that we stand by and it will be preserved. I will work with the hon. Lady, as I have been invited to do, to ensure that through the whole of the process we deliver on the principles.

[Lady Hermon]

I will take that as a commitment that at tea we will agree that the Good Friday agreement will be written into the next Bill—perhaps the withdrawal Bill. The Minister just has to nod.

[Mr Walker]

As I said to the hon. Lady in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, we are in the process of negotiating the withdrawal agreement and therefore we cannot pre-empt the detail of the Bill. Clearly, we want to enshrine the principles in the withdrawal agreement and that Bill will legislate for that. There is a logic to what she says and I am happy to follow up and discuss it further.

[Lady Hermon]

With that, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the new clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 10 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 2

Corresponding powers involving devolved authorities

Amendment proposed: 167,  page 17, line 9, at end insert—

“(3) This paragraph does not apply to regulations made under this Part by the Scottish Ministers or the Welsh Ministers.”—(Stephen Gethins.)

This amendment would provide that the power of the Scottish Ministers and the Welsh Ministers to make regulations under Part 1 of Schedule 2 extends to amending directly applicable EU law incorporated into UK law, in line with a Minister of the Crown’s power in Clause 7.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Robin Walker and Lady Hermon

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 14th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr Robin Walker)]

It has been a pleasure to listen to this wide-ranging debate, but I do not intend to summarise it, and nor do I have the time to do so. I did, however, want to do something that the voice of my fellow Under-Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker), would not allow him to do, which is to respond to the amendment standing in the name of the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams), who is not his place, and which has been supported by a number of Opposition Members.

My hon. Friend rightly spoke about how the Bill was about continuity, certainty and control, and that matters to every part of the UK. The hon. Member for Arfon and those who signed his amendment know that we are committed to securing a deal that works for the entire UK—for Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and all parts of England. There is considerable common ground between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations on what we want to get out of this process, and we expect the outcome to be a significant increase in the decision-making power of each devolved Administration. But we are clear that no part of the UK has a veto over leaving the EU; we voted in a referendum as one United Kingdom and we will leave as one United Kingdom. This Government have already shown their commitment to the Sewel convention—

[Lady Hermon]

What the Minister has said is very important, and I am listening carefully. Has he sent a signal this evening that he is prepared, and the Government are prepared, to ignore the requirement of the legislative consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly in order to get their way with this Bill? Is that the signal he has sent?

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Lady pre-empts my next point. What I would say before making the point about Wales and Scotland is that of course we all want to see a Northern Ireland Assembly in place and functioning, with power sharing, so that it can give assent to this Bill. The Government have already shown their commitment to the Sewel convention, demonstrated through its inclusion in the Scotland Act 2016 and the Wales Act 2017, and we are seeking legislative consent for this Bill in the usual way.

[Lady Hermon]

rose—

[Mr Walker]

I am afraid I cannot give way again at this point. We want to make the positive case for legislative consent and work closely with the devolved Administrations and legislatures to achieve this.

Crucial to understanding this Bill is the ongoing work on common frameworks, which has been mentioned, determining areas where they will and will not be required, which will reduce the scope and effect of clause 11. We acknowledge that that work on common frameworks will be crucial to the consideration of legislative consent.