Ofsted: Accountability

Debate between Robin Walker and Dan Poulter

Wednesday 8th June 2022 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for School Standards (Mr Robin Walker)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley, for what I believe is the first time. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) for opening the debate. I greatly value the opportunity to listen to his insights and the detailed research that he has done, supported by the Chamber Engagement Team, before holding the debate.

I extend that appreciation to other colleagues who have spoken today and brought up individual cases. It is always a great pleasure to hear from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon); that is not unusual for Ministers responding to a Westminster Hall debate, but it is a particular pleasure for me. My hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) raised an important case in his constituency, as did my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer. I will try to address those cases towards the end of my remarks, so I fully understand if my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich has to leave the Chamber before then. It is rare to have an opportunity to speak at such length in the Chamber, but I remember PPS-ing one debate in Westminster Hall in which I was asked by officials to pass a note to the Minister saying, “You don’t actually have to use all the time, you know.” The Minister was not entirely pleased to receive that advice from his officials, who clearly felt he was being much too long-winded.

As the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan) has pointed out, the debate is timely, given that it comes in a symbolic year for Ofsted with its 30th anniversary. Such occasions rightly demand that we pause to reflect, and I am pleased that the debate has provided another opportunity to do so. I will try to set out some of the context and some of the broader points about accountability that my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer has asked me to address, and then come to the specific cases towards the end of my remarks.

This period in Ofsted’s history has added significance, with the resumption of routine graded inspection programmes taking place at the start of this academic year—an important milestone that comes after a period of enormous disruption to our society caused by the pandemic, which has required significant adaptation in the education and children’s services sector and in Ofsted as an inspectorate. I join my hon. Friend in thanking teachers and heads for all they have done through that period. It is right to acknowledge the enormous pressures they have been under and the additional work that heads in every school, no matter its rating or relationship with Ofsted, and their teachers and all school staff have been facing.

The fact that schools and other providers face challenges and disruption in their work only reinforces the importance of parents, the Government and Parliament having independent assurance through Ofsted that children are receiving the best possible education and are safe at this critical time. It is encouraging that when inspections have taken place this academic year, the outcomes have often been very positive and in many ways similar to, or an improvement on, what was there before the pandemic. For example, the large majority of good schools continue to be good, or have improved to outstanding, and a large majority—a higher percentage than before the pandemic—of schools that were previously less than good are now being graded as good or better. It is the case that a significant proportion—around half—of formerly exempt outstanding schools, which are often receiving their first Ofsted visit in a decade or more, have not maintained their former grade. However, even the change from outstanding has more often than not been a change to good.

As we turn to recovery, it is clear to me that every part of the education system, including Ofsted, has its role to play. Before moving on to the specific matter of Ofsted’s accountability, it is worth reflecting for a moment on the significance of Ofsted within our system.

Ofsted, or the Office for Standards in Education, was established in 1992, introducing for the first time universal, regular and independent inspection of all schools, with inspectors working to a national, published inspection framework. Much has changed over the years and I do not want to go into a detailed blow-by-blow account of all that, but it is worth noting that Ofsted’s remit has grown over the years to encompass early years, children’s services and skills. It was reconstituted, as the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills, by the Labour Government in 2006. The legislation establishing Ofsted in its current form—the Education and Inspections Act 2006—also stipulated a set of responsibilities for Her Majesty’s chief inspector and, separately, Ofsted’s statutory board, comprising a chair, members and Her Majesty’s chief inspector.

The fact that Ofsted was established by a Conservative Government and expanded under a Labour Government signifies the broad cross-party consensus for its independent inspection role that has existed for most of the last 30 years, and I was pleased to hear from the shadow Minister’s comments that he is restoring at least a degree of that consensus in his approach.

Despite the various changes and developments over the years, Ofsted’s central role in our systems has remained a constant. Inspection provides key and trusted information for parents. When it comes to choosing a school, school proximity is usually the decisive factor in making the final choice, followed by the ethos of the school and then Ofsted’s judgment. That shows how important the judgment is, and 70% of parents feel that Ofsted reports are a reliable source of information on their child’s school. Beyond that, though, Ofsted’s inspection gives recognition and validation to effective practice where it is seen and prompts self-improvement. It provides assurance not only for parents but for the wider community and it triggers intervention where necessary. It also provides evidence both to Governments and to Parliament.

In that context, it is entirely legitimate to reflect on and examine the inspectorate’s accountability. It is of great significance that Ofsted was established as, and remains to this day, a non-ministerial Government Department and an independent inspectorate, a duality that brings benefits as well as a degree of complexity and which has implications when it comes to considering accountability.

Starting with a rather obvious point that will not have escaped the attention of hon. Members, I am standing before Members in Westminster Hall today, not Her Majesty’s chief inspector. That reflects Ofsted’s non-ministerial status and means that the Government have a line of accountability to Parliament for Ofsted and its work. Sitting beneath that, however, are lines of accountability between Ofsted and the Secretary of State, between Ofsted and the Government more generally, and directly between Ofsted and Parliament. I will address those lines of accountability now.

Even a cursory look at the legislation underpinning Ofsted demonstrates a clear link between Ofsted and the Secretary of State. For example, the Education and Inspections Act 2006 provides that, in addition to specific inspection and regulatory responsibilities, Her Majesty’s chief inspector has a general responsibility to keep the Secretary of State informed about the quality and effectiveness of services within Ofsted’s remit. The chief inspector must provide information or advice to the Secretary of State when requested, and in carrying out her work must have regard to such aspects of Government policy as the Secretary of State may direct. Inspection legislation also places a duty on Ofsted to inspect schools when requested to do so by the Secretary of State. Furthermore, although the position of Her Majesty’s chief inspector is a Crown appointment, the chief inspector holds and vacates her office in accordance with the terms of her appointment, and those terms are determined by the Secretary of State.

It is clear that Ofsted’s relationship with the Secretary of State and Ministers provides one important dimension to its accountability, and means that Ofsted inspects within the context of the Government’s policies. I, the Secretary of State and my colleague in the Lords regularly meet Her Majesty’s chief inspector—the regularity varies from about once a month to every six weeks—to discuss a wide range of matters relating to Ofsted and its work. The debate has certainly given me some further issues that I will raise and discuss in such meetings.

As for examples of Ofsted’s broader accountability to Government, hon. Members will wish to be aware that Ofsted is expected to comply with various Government rules, for example those set by Her Majesty’s Treasury and the Cabinet Office that relate to Departments. For the purpose of illustration, these include requirements to publish equality objectives and to report on them annually, and requirements to publish information on pay, gender and so on.

I turn now to Ofsted’s accountability to Parliament, starting with a simple example. On a day-to-day level, Ofsted regularly responds directly to correspondence from hon. Members, and Her Majesty’s chief inspector also responds directly to written parliamentary questions relating to Ofsted’s work, with a record of her responses being placed in the Library. Her Majesty’s chief inspector can also be called to give evidence to Select Committees. In practice, that line of accountability usually operates through the Education Committee, which I understand holds regular sessions on Ofsted’s work, but it is also the case that Ofsted may appear before other Committees, such as the Public Accounts Committee. That scrutiny of course extends to the other place, where I know that Ofsted recently gave evidence alongside me on the issue of citizenship education.

[Dr Poulter]

Accountability implies a sense of responsibility. It is right that Ofsted should respond to Members of Parliament, but at the regular meetings that my hon. Friend, Secretary of State and the Minister in the Lords have with Ofsted, what ability do Ministers have to influence Ofsted?

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend asks an excellent question. The meetings often involve frank discussions in which we do not always necessarily agree. We are certainly not in a position to give Ofsted orders, but we have the opportunity to raise concerns that have been expressed by colleagues, and those meetings can be influential and important. I will give an example. During the course of the covid pandemic and in the immediate recovery, we had many discussions about the process of deferrals. Ofsted brought forward a generous deferral policy that allowed schools that felt that they were facing disruption to defer their inspections, and many schools took advantage of that and benefited from it. However, there has to be a degree of independence, and that is all part of the balance.

Beyond the accountability mechanisms in place that relate to the Government and Parliament, the Government’s arrangements for Ofsted also provide a separate line of accountability. As I mentioned earlier, the 2006 Act established a statutory board for Ofsted with a specified set of functions relating to setting its strategic priorities and objectives, monitoring targets, and ensuring the efficiency and effectiveness of Ofsted’s work. The board has an important challenge and support role in relation to the inspectorate’s work and performance, and it is notable that Her Majesty’s chief inspector is required to agree her performance objectives and targets with the chair. It will also be of interest to hon. Members that Ofsted’s board is currently carrying out a routine board effectiveness review, as confirmed by Dame Christine Ryan when she gave evidence to the Education Committee last September. I understand that Dame Christine will update the Education Committee on this work in due course.

So far I have provided an outline and we have discussed various elements of the accountability that applies to Ofsted, but I turn now to the other side of the coin, which is its independence. Independence is a necessary pre-requisite for the inspectorate, providing credibility and value to Ofsted’s work. Ofsted’s ability to inspect and report without fear or favour remains as relevant today as it always has been, and it has to be carefully guarded. Operating within the constraints of legislation and broad Government policy, Ofsted has appropriate freedom to develop and implement its own inspection frameworks through consultation, and to offer advice on matters relating to its remit.

Ofsted is also responsible for the conduct and reporting of its inspections, and it is perhaps here that Ofsted’s independence is most apparent. No Minister or Committee member in this House, however powerful, can amend Ofsted’s professional judgments, and I recognise that that is one of the concerns raised by my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer. Parliament has chosen—I believe rightly—to protect the inspectorate from interference in these matters. To put it simply, when it comes to inspection judgments, Ofsted has complete independence. The buck stops with Her Majesty’s chief inspector.

I absolutely recognise that independent inspection can sometimes mean that there are difficult messages for individual schools, colleges and other providers about the quality of their provision. I am conscious that Ofsted’s independent view can sometimes result in uncomfortable messages—even for Ministers—but as challenging as that can be at times, the benefits of independent inspection and reporting are undeniable and should be carefully protected in the interests of pupils and parents, as well as staff and leaders, across the country. There will always be debate when it comes to judgments on quality, and I accept that. After all, an inspection is not, and should not be, a tick-box exercise. It requires professional judgment to weigh up multiple factors that contribute to a school being assessed as good or, much less often, not good.

When it comes to assessing safeguarding of pupils, I hope hon. Members will agree that we need Ofsted’s assessments to be robust and absolutely clear where there are concerns. It is also important that Ofsted’s inspection approach is proportionate to risk, with more extensive and frequent arrangements for weaker schools. That is not over-surveillance but responsiveness to provide additional scrutiny and the assurance that parents, Governments and Parliament need.

With the power to provide a published judgment on the provider comes the clear responsibility to ensure that those judgments are evidence-based, fair and accurate. I know that Her Majesty’s chief inspector is absolutely committed to ensuring that inspections are of the highest quality. That requires, among other things, a careful selection of inspectors, effective training led by Her Majesty’s inspectors, and strong quality assurance arrangements, all of which are taken extremely seriously by Ofsted.

In that context, it is particularly encouraging that the evidence from Ofsted’s post-inspection surveys indicates that the vast majority of schools with experience of inspection are satisfied by that experience. The data shows specifically that almost nine in 10 responding schools were satisfied with the way in which inspections were carried out. A similar proportion felt that the inspection judgments were justified based on the evidence collected, and nine in 10 agreed that the inspection would help them to improve further. I think that is a strong sign that the inspection framework can and does support schools. I recognise, however, that my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich has his own survey data, and it is important that we look at that in detail and take it into account.

Alexandra Hospital, Redditch

Debate between Robin Walker and Dan Poulter

Tuesday 12th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Dr Poulter]

With regard to “bread and butter” day-to-day medical services, my hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that. My point was that for some services—for example, trauma or stroke—having specialist centres brings better results for patients, and there is good clinical evidence to back that up. However, day-to-day, higher-quality “bread and butter” services for patients—such as heart care or children’s services—are often best provided locally, and he is absolutely right to make that point.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) on securing this very important debate.

The Minister mentioned the issue of recruitment of clinical staff. One thing that the NHS in Worcestershire has worked very hard on is a cancer strategy to keep cancer care within the county and to make the Worcestershire Royal hospital a centre of excellence for cancer care. We are looking to secure a radiotherapy unit in the near future. I urge the Minister, in taking whatever decisions are necessary to ensure that the county has the strongest, most sustainable NHS, to pay attention to that work and to the importance of having a cancer service for the county.

[Dr Poulter]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to praise the high-quality work done in Worcester to look after cancer patients. It is exactly the point that I was making in response to the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff): the high-quality day-to-day services that patients need must be delivered locally, but more specialist operations—such as for head and neck cancer—might be carried out at a specialist site that is geared up for such operations. Day-to-day oncology care, however, is often best carried out locally, particularly when people are unwell with cancer and receiving sometimes very intensive treatment. In those situations, they need to be looked after locally.

It does not benefit patients, for medical and many other reasons, to have very long distances to travel. However, when surgical outcomes might benefit from operations being carried out at specialist centres, we must differentiate day-to-day treatment from the more specialist care that may be required as a one-off surgical intervention. We should do that when the evidence stacks up that specialist centres for such surgical interventions often deliver better results and better care for patients. Nevertheless, my hon. Friend is absolutely right to pay tribute to his local trust for the work that it does on cancer care in Worcester, which I know is very important to him personally.

I will now respond specifically to some of the points that have been made in the debate, and consider how we go forward from where we are now. Hon. Members, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch, have made us well aware, through their articulate contributions, of the challenges that are faced by the local health care economy. Such ongoing uncertainty about the future of local health care services is wrong and completely undesirable. When local commissioners bring forward proposals for the two options that are likely to be considered later in the month, I urge them to move forward as promptly as possible to bring certainty to the situation. That will allow consideration of important issues, such as the need to have high-quality professionals working in hospitals. When there is uncertainty about the future of a trust or a particular site within a trust, it can be difficult, as my hon. Friend rightly outlined, to recruit high-quality staff to work in that trust. That is not in patients’ best interests, so the sooner we can have certainty, the better. I know my hon. Friend will join me in urging local commissioners to bring things forward as expediently and quickly as possible.

As we know, the trust is committed to providing the best-quality care for patients. That is essentially about finding the best solution for the people of Worcestershire so that they receive the best care in the future. As my hon. Friend outlined, Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust and the West Mercia cluster have jointly commissioned a strategic review of services in the area. The review is essential to secure the clinical and financial sustainability of high-quality services for local people. That is about looking not just at getting through the next couple of years, but at what will be right for the local health economy in five or 10 years’ time.

I understand my hon. Friend’s concern that there have been delays with the review, and I once again urge local commissioners to take things forward as expediently and quickly as possible. The Worcestershire joint services review started in January 2012, and it was expected to be completed by November 2012. I hope my hon. Friend is somewhat reassured that we will move forward more quickly, notwithstanding a patchy history on resolving local health care issues. There is a need for certainty locally, and we must make sure that the time line is met and that we have a firm conclusion.

Importantly, the review involves clinicians and commissioners across the area and the NHS. It engaged with local people last summer to inform the development of proposals. As we know, developing proposals for the future of local services is about clinical leadership and about clinicians saying what is important and in patients’ best interests, but it is also about local involvement and engagement. When I met my hon. Friend before Christmas, we discussed that. The local newspaper has played a tremendous role in promoting local patients’ needs. My hon. Friend and the local population should be proud of the cross-party consensus on the importance of Redditch’s future.

Through the review, local people will have made, and will continue to make, their voices and views clear. That is important for the Government and for our four tests for reconfiguration. It is also important that local health care providers, the local trust and the trust’s board listen to local people and local health commissioners to make sure that their views are informed by what local patients want and need and by what local clinicians say is in patients’ best interests.

The joint services review steering group met on 12 September 2012 and, unfortunately, decided to delay the process again until it could explore all options to allow it to maximise service provision at the Alexandra hospital, including investigating the potential to work with other NHS providers—Birmingham being a case in point.

My hon. Friend will be aware that the Redditch and Bromsgrove clinical commissioning group has started initial discussions with three NHS providers in Birmingham to explore the feasibility of providing services from the Alexandra hospital: the University Hospitals of Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust, Birmingham Women’s NHS Foundation Trust and Birmingham Children’s Hospital NHS Foundation Trust. Those discussions are still in their early stages. However, my hon. Friend is right that when proposals are brought forward—hopefully, by the end of this month—we should move things forward quickly for the benefit of local patients.

No decisions have been made, and the discussions are only about the Alexandra hospital—that needs to be clearly set on the record. The Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust would continue to provide all other services. Given the concerns my hon. Friends have raised, it is important to note that, although the services the trust provides need to be seen holistically, the ongoing discussions are about the specific future of Alex’s site in Redditch. That is an important distinction, and I hope it gives my hon. Friends some reassurance that any proposals are unlikely to disrupt local services to the patients they care about.

Ultimately, the decision is for local determination, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the discussions in further detail until we have firm proposals. We will continue to meet regularly. I am visiting Redditch in the near future, and will take a keen interest to make sure I can do all I can to support the right result for local patients.

Cost of Living

Debate between Robin Walker and Dan Poulter

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), who made a thoughtful speech on the important issue of social care, about which people from all parts of the House feel strongly. I echo her good wishes to the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton).

It is a pleasure to be called to speak in the debate on the Gracious Speech and to be able to mark, as MP for the faithful city of Worcester, the celebrations that will rightly take place around the country for the diamond jubilee of our sovereign. After the splendour and pageantry of last week’s Gracious Speech, this debate focuses on its grittiest elements—those that relate to the cost of living. I am constantly reminded on the doorsteps of Worcester and in my surgeries that the cost of living is a matter of prime concern for many constituents. I will first address the parts of the speech that relate specifically to the cost of living, before making a few broader points on the economy, which is referenced in the Opposition amendment.

There was much to be welcomed in the Gracious Speech on the cost of living. Contrary to the rhetoric that we have heard from Opposition Members, the speech is imbued with concern over the cost of living. It promises vital reforms that will make a difference to the price of the water and electricity in our homes and the food in our shops.

There are some things that I would have liked to have been included in the Queen’s Speech that were not present. In some quarters, the speech has been criticised for not doing more to tackle the issue of fuel duties or to spearhead vitally needed growth. I will return to the latter point at the end of my speech. On the former point, I have enormous sympathy for people across the country and from all parties who want to see a permanent shift in the balance of fuel duties. Although I am doubtful that a programme of legislation is the right place for such a move, I will continue to push for it in future Budgets and Bills. The price of petrol has become too high. It is a major cost to our economy and a driver of inflation. I hope that the Government will listen carefully to the many voices that have been raised—from Upper Bann and Belfast to Harlow—to call for more action on this front.

I want to see a Government who are resolutely focused on supporting the economic growth that will deliver better living standards. I am confident that we will see that, without the need for further legislation. The best weapon that we can wield against the cost of living is material prosperity for the many, not the few. In that regard, we should look at what has been done to help the lowest-paid workers stay out of tax and at the commitment in the Budget to extend the tax-free threshold to up to 2 million more lower-paid workers, which have been mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Mr Ruffley) and the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert).

I do not accept the suggestion from some quarters that economic growth is the enemy of sustainability and that we should juxtapose the need to grow our economy with the desire to be green and efficient. Nor do I accept the argument so often heard from the Opposition that fiscal stimulus is the only path to growth. I believe that we can deliver greener, more diverse and more sustainable economic growth that will increase the wealth of our nation and provide individuals and families with the tools to overcome a higher cost of living. That does not mean that the Government can neglect the need to deal with the cost of living.

I am delighted that the Government are committed to major reforms in the provision of electricity and water to make those industries more efficient, to ensure that there are clean, secure and affordable supplies, and to ensure that prices are fairer over the long term. It is a shocking indictment of the last Labour Government that we inherited a situation in which a fifth of the UK’s energy generation capacity was due to be taken offline within 10 years, while electricity demand is to double in the next 40 years. We need to act fast to secure the £100 billion of investment that is necessary to keep the lights on.

I am glad that the Government are setting out detailed plans for an energy Bill to bring market reform. Winston Churchill said that energy security is energy diversity. The Bill must reflect that by supporting all technologies, whether nuclear, renewable or gas-based, that can make our electricity more affordable, more efficient and more sustainable. The introduction of a capacity mechanism will be vital to improve our security and to maximise the enormous potential for diversity that our island nation has.

The introduction of an emissions performance standard, alongside the Government’s earlier decision to look at carbon pricing, should ensure that we have cleaner, greener generation in the future. However, that must be carefully balanced, so as not to push costs too high.

I understand that the Government’s analysis shows that although some years might see higher prices as a result of the electricity market reforms, the overall impact will be to bring prices down. That is to be welcomed, but I urge the Government to recognise the need to do everything in their power to accelerate that trend. By 2020, it is expected that bills could be 7% lower than they would have been without the reforms. As the Secretary of State said earlier, over two decades, bills are expected to be 4% lower. I would like to see more progress and a greater impact as the Bill makes its way towards becoming an Act.

After months of drought followed by torrential rain, it might be suggested that water reforms would be best focused on regulating the weather. However, I am pleased to see a serious focus on that industry as well. It cannot be right that we have one of the lowest proportions of metered households in Europe, and that prices are rising so sharply for everyone, including the poorest in the country. The measures to encourage the water companies to introduce cheaper tariffs to support the most vulnerable customers are welcome. It is vital that the Government work to drive down water bills by increasing competition in the water industry.

Across water and energy, there is increasing pressure from a growing population for finite resources. As the right hon. Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) pointed out in a thoughtful speech, it is important that we do not just concentrate on the day-to-day minutiae of market structures and prices or on what is happening just within the boundaries of the UK, but that we raise our eyes and recognise that there are big strategic challenges for our management of energy and water supplies. In a world in which the population is growing fast and where the wealth of those who previously consumed the least is rising more swiftly than that of the formerly gluttonous west, we will face increased competition for all resources. Realistically, politicians of all colours have to admit that we cannot wave a magic wand and bring prices down every year for the resources we need. We have to face up to a far more competitive and far more volatile world and take on the long-term challenge of keeping costs under control and reducing consumption. Acknowledging that entails an ever greater focus on efficiency and on ensuring that resources are not wasted—itself a potential driver of growth for businesses such as Worcester Bosch, which makes energy efficient boilers in my constituency, or Vickers Electronics, which I visited recently and which has opened an office in Worcester to market its energy saving devices for factory heating.

There is an old saying, “Where there’s muck, there’s brass,” and we should ensure that where there is a waste of resources, there are opportunities for British businesses to get involved in reducing it. Previous actions by the Government, such as the green deal and the renewable heat incentive, are important elements of that, and I encourage Ministers to take those measures forward further and faster. The creation of the Green investment bank will provide vital investment for the sector and encourage its growth. That does not mean that the Government are wrong to be acting on prices and reforms, but action must be part of a bigger strategic approach to ensure that Britain is best placed to compete in the 21st-century world. In that respect, I recognise the enormous value of many of the initiatives discussed in yesterday’s debate on foreign affairs: the emerging powers initiative, the commitment to work with the Commonwealth, and the broad focus that this country is putting on maintaining our place on the world stage. Our energy and water resources will not be secured in isolation, nor can we feed our nation purely from the produce of our own shores.

Moving closer to home, I strongly welcome the introduction of a groceries code adjudicator to regulate the big supermarkets, ensure a better deal for our farmers, and put fairer food at the heart of our food system. The adjudicator must have strong powers to act on behalf of shoppers and suppliers and it must be prepared to take on some of the powerful vested interests that have dominated the sector hitherto. Diversity of production is as important in food as it is in energy and we must support diversity of supply so that there are more farmers markets, more co-operatives and more direct selling of food by growers or producers. Worcestershire has some fantastic food producers, whether it is our fruit growers and asparagus champions of the vale of Evesham, our dairies and sheep farmers across the county, or global brands, such as Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce, which is produced in the very heart of my constituency. I want all those producers to be able to get a fair price for their product and to market those products at a reasonable price to consumers. I believe that the groceries code adjudicator can play a key role in achieving that.

Keeping down the price of food would also be helped enormously by a reduction in the price of diesel, which is important both in the growing and harvesting of our crops and in their delivery to market. That is another reason why the Government should consider further action on that important issue.

[Dr Poulter]

My hon. Friend is making a very good speech. On the subject of the groceries code adjudicator, I am sure he agrees with me that it is important to have fair prices not only for consumers, but for producers, and that if we do not look after our food producers prices will go up for our consumers, because we will be far too reliant on food imported from overseas. Does he also agree that one of the key purposes of establishing the groceries code adjudicator must be to support producers better and ensure that we have a more sustainable food and agriculture sector in this country?

[Mr Walker]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend.

BBC Local Radio

Debate between Robin Walker and Dan Poulter

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend makes a strong point; the fact is that we are having a grown-up debate today and discussing something that matters to our constituents.

More broadly, all such media organisations are under strain. They are all suffering cuts at the moment, so we are not operating in a space where the BBC is encroaching on the territory of private media organisations; rather, it is the opposite. It is important that we should be supporting local radio at this time.

[Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that the most recent listening figures show that the overall weekly reach for BBC local radio is 7.4 million, which is actually 700,000 more than last year. That shows that local communities value local radio and that they like local news. If we are discussing public service broadcasting, that is the type of broadcasting that people want. Does he agree that the BBC should listen to that, make cuts in the back office in White City and at the expense of highly paid presenters, and preserve front-line services?

[Mr Walker]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that the BBC Trust is listening carefully to today’s debate.

I am looking forward to the Minister’s response, although I appreciate that he will have to point out that the BBC is still in the process of consultation and that many of these matters are as yet undecided.