Health and Social Care

Robert Walter Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on the Address.

In nearly 30 years in the House, it has been my experience that Governments are always accused of having either too much or too little in their Queen’s Speeches. As my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) rightly said in his excellent contribution, however, they are works in progress. I congratulate the Government on bringing forward a measured and carefully thought-out programme, which has been welcomed by my constituents and which will make a positive contribution to the lives of many of our fellow citizens. The immigration measures, the national insurance contributions Bill and the deregulation Bill are particularly important to the work that the Government are doing—in my view far more successfully than they are being given credit for—in fixing the British economy, which is showing clear signs of real improvement.

I would like to report to the House that at the Burgess Hill Business Parks Association business exhibition on Friday there was a solid mood of determination to grow our local economy, as well as considerable satisfaction at the progress being made. The message that I take back from that admirable gathering is one that all our colleagues will find when they go to gatherings of that type: people want the Government to press on with getting rid of regulation and bringing in lower taxes—above all, they want to get on with growth. This Queen’s Speech presses on with a number of key reforms on welfare, on education and by the Home Secretary in her excellent work on immigration.

We were fortunate to have exceptionally good local election results in Mid Sussex, where the combination of a prudent and well-run West Sussex county council and an extraordinarily efficient and well-led district council have delivered with confidence the Government’s agenda, which is welcomed and well understood. What is clearly most important locally, however, is the state of the economy. For all of us, that must be at the very top of all our constituents’ concerns about the future of the country. Our constituents want the Chancellor and the Prime Minister to press on. If they do and the economy grows, much of the country’s serious anxieties will begin to disappear like the winter snow.

I am delighted that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is in Washington today with President Obama in our pursuit of the European Union-United States free trade agreement, which is clearly extremely important to our future, not only for our national trade and commerce in Europe and elsewhere, but as a mark of stability in world trade, which is vital to the ordinary conduct of economic and world trade growth. All of us here know that the opportunities in that regard are enormous.

[Mr Robert Walter (North Dorset) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that if we were to vote to leave the European Union, we would no longer benefit from that free trade agreement?

[Nicholas Soames]

I do agree, but I will come to that point in a moment, if I may.

As co-chairman with the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) of the cross-party group on balanced migration, I warmly welcome the considerable progress that the Government have made on the difficult and sensitive matter of immigration. They have succeeded in driving down numbers and there is real progress, but there are no easy solutions. I welcome the carefully thought-out work of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health on those services. The cross-party group, and I think most of the House, knows that the most careful attention must now be paid to the question of access to benefits and the health service. Thus, the immigration Bill is an important step forward.

I know the Government do not underestimate the anger and frustration that many people feel about too many people arriving in Britain and accessing public services before they truly should. To that end, I will conclude by saying a few words about the European issue.

The House knows that I am a staunch but not uncritical pro-European. I acknowledge the profound frustration of dealing with Europe, and there are certainly the most serious problems with the European Union that we must fix. The Conservatives are committed to doing that. In many of these matters, we will find solid support across the continent from our European partners, and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will do that.

People need to understand that the Prime Minister has committed to the negotiation of a new settlement between Britain and the European Union. People questioned whether he would veto an EU treaty, but he has vetoed an EU treaty; people questioned his ability to get the EU budget cut, but he has succeeded in getting it cut; and people questioned his ability to get powers back from the EU, but the fact is that he got us out of the EU bail-out mechanism and saved this country hundreds of millions of pounds.

The Prime Minister has said that he is committed to negotiating a new settlement for Britain within the EU and I have every confidence that that is precisely what he will achieve. It will be then for the British people to judge that settlement in a referendum. There will be a referendum on our membership of the EU; the commitment on that is absolute. Some of my hon. Friends and indeed some of my right hon. Friends need to be a little cautious about trivialising what is involved. The decision on a referendum is hugely important for this country; it is probably the most important decision that it will have to take for generations. It is not to be lightly taken, or on the basis of prejudice or pub rhetoric.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Robert Walter (North Dorset) (Con)]

I would like to talk on two issues that, although not included in the Queen’s Speech, will come before the House in this Session, one of which needs to be addressed with some urgency.

In 2005, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Britain’s automatic blanket ban on the right of prisoners to exercise their vote was incompatible with the convention on human rights, of which we are a signatory. Almost eight years on, the United Kingdom has still not acted on that ruling and time is running short. The Government must submit their response to the Council of Europe’s Committee of Ministers by 30 September. We have less than five months to prepare and present a formula that will be not only satisfactory to the Committee, but acceptable to Parliament and credible in the eyes of the British public.

I would like to state from the outset that I disagree with the ECHR ruling. I believe that the current ban on prisoner voting, which was ruled on and reinforced by successive Parliaments, is a proper and proportionate response following conviction and imprisonment, and I spoke and voted accordingly when the House last debated this matter. I repeat that to my mind the right to vote is not an intrinsic right, but a civic duty reserved for responsible citizens. However, we cannot talk of individual duty and responsibility in the eyes of the law while shirking our national obligations to uphold the international rule of law, one of the basic tenets of British foreign policy. Here is the troubling paradox: if, as the old maxim goes, no man is above the law, surely no country is either. I welcome the fact that this Government, unlike their predecessors, have recognised this responsibility, and I am pleased that the draft Bill on prisoner voting has been presented and that a Joint Committee will consider its options, but I am concerned that matters are progressing slowly against a swiftly approaching deadline and that we are not making a strong enough case for a pragmatic solution.

If the Government choose to maintain the status quo, we will stand in breach of the convention. If we ignore the judgment, we send the message that dissent is an acceptable state of play, and we would damage our reputation and lose the moral authority to demand compliance from those countries that persistently violate international law. Do we want our record on observing the rule of law compared with that of Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia? It would be neither right nor desirable, but a solution might be closer to home than we think.

Before the blanket ban came into force under the Representation of the People Act 1969, limited forms of prisoner voting were permissible and even practised. The Forfeiture Act 1870 disqualified convicted felons from voting, but only those serving a sentence exceeding 12 months. Felons serving less than 12 months could legally vote, and where it was practically and logistically possible, some indeed did. In the 1950 general election, for example, postal ballots were returned from prisoners in jails across the country.

There is more. When the Criminal Law Act 1967 abolished the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours, the concomitant disqualification on prisoner voting came temporarily to an end. In fact, all prisoners could vote. In effect, these prisoners had the right to vote, and it might surprise people that this was not an unintended consequence of the legislation, but a conscious decision based on a recommendation by a law review committee that the practice of prisoner disfranchisement should not continue.

That policy continued until a ban was introduced in 1969 under the Representation of the People Act, but the point is that the issue was not historically set in stone—not under the Forfeiture Act and not when the United Kingdom signed the convention in 1950—so past precedents should lead the way. To this end, the Government’s proposals on minimum thresholds are worthy of consideration, as they reflect an approach that was deemed compatible with UK law, public opinion and the convention, but we need to step up the dialogue.

How, then, do we move forward? I believe that the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours is obsolete, but the classification of crimes into indictable and summary offences, which distinguishes between grades of crime, mode of trial and punishment available, continues to apply. Like the old felonies, the most serious indictable crimes are tried before a Crown court, and I believe that this distinction could be used as a building block for a sentence-based solution that recognises the gravity of an offence committed. This is a route that we should consider, and the United Kingdom now has an advantage: the European Court recently reaffirmed its commitment to allowing the UK greater flexibility in how we apply the ruling, providing an opportunity to develop a policy that reconciles both principle with pragmatism and which allows our past to pave the way forward.

[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

I think my hon. Friend has made a constructive contribution, but would he accept that what he is saying is totally at odds with what the people of this country believe? They do not want prisoners to have the vote and they do not see why European judges should be bossing them around and telling them otherwise.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Walter]

I do not see why European judges should be bossing us around either, but if we stick to the principle that we should do nothing that we did not already do when we signed the convention back in 1950, then we have a pragmatic way forward to deal with the problem.

I said I wanted to deal with two issues. I want to say a few words to those of my colleagues who are often banging on about Europe. Let me remind them that divided parties do not give the electorate confidence and are generally not re-elected. If those colleagues genuinely want a referendum, they should rally behind the Prime Minister, who has a clear commitment to address the European Union’s institutional deficiencies and to get a better deal in Europe and then put that to the people of this country in a referendum. Carrying on in this mode is a sure-fire way to give Nigel Farage job security, for we will keep UKIP in business for ever if we undermine the Prime Minister and lose the next election. Perhaps some of my colleagues enjoy banging on about Europe and are not interested in the Prime Minister’s endeavours to find a solution, but they will have plenty to bang on about if we have another Labour Government. If they sincerely believe that what we want is a referendum on Europe, let me tell them that the only way we will achieve that is to return a Conservative Government. Therefore, I shall not support the amendment that has been tabled, although not yet selected; I shall definitely be supporting the Prime Minister.