BBC Investment (East and West Midlands)
Debate between Robert Flello and Lord Vaizey of DidcotWestminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Mr Edward Vaizey)
It is a pleasure to appear under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I often say that when I appear before a new Chairman, but in this case I mean it. I have obviously been an enormous fan of yours since we came into the House together, and I want to celebrate you as one of Britain’s foremost authors. I am referring to the famous Four Streets trilogy: “The Four Streets”, “Hide Her Name” and “The Ballymara Road”, which was published this month. What we see before us is a multi-thousand-selling British author. It perhaps says something about the tone of arts coverage in this country that the Chairman we see before us is not as celebrated as some other authors who sell far fewer books. Thank you, Ms Dorries, for allowing me to indulge myself in this way. When I tried to praise Louise Bagshawe, when she was an MP, Mr Speaker slapped me down, but thankfully we have a more enlightened Chairman for this debate.
I praise my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mark Spencer) for calling this important debate. It has been much more lively than I expected. Before talking about his remarks and those of other hon. Members, I pay special tribute to the brilliant journalist Graeme Brown, of The Birmingham Post and the Birmingham Mail, who has brought this campaign to great prominence. He has worked with many hon. Members who are in the House this afternoon to get the campaign to critical mass.
I cannot improve on the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood in terms of the statistics that he talked about—the hundreds of millions of pounds spent on the licence fee by people living in the midlands and the return on investment that they get from the BBC. A more important point, because one can always play around with statistics, is that it is clear, from what he said, that investment has increased in all regions except the midlands. It has fallen in the midlands and in London, but that is not really relevant because London has huge funding already.
I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Julian Knight). He was that rare species—a Conservative in the BBC. For that, he is to be treasured. Part of me wishes that he was still in the BBC, flying the flag for the Conservative party. One would have thought that he had been working not for the BBC but in the House for the past 25 years, such was the assured point that he made—that there is a north-south link, as it were, at the BBC, missing out the midlands.
Of course, this was not a one-sided debate. We had valuable contributions from the Opposition and the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) in particular. I join with her in defending the BBC; we are its critical friends, but we want to see it thrive because it is both a fantastic asset to viewers and listeners in this country and one of our most important—if not the most important—global calling cards.
The hon. Lady made points about why the BBC should have a greater presence in the midlands as well as represent youth and diversity to a greater extent. Diversity in particular is a passion of mine and we urgently need far more diversity in our media. The BBC could lead the way and, as she pointed out, with such diverse and young communities in the constituencies represented by Members in the Chamber, the BBC should be working at that.
The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe) made forceful points about the need for the BBC to invest in the midlands, as did the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden). It was not his debut, but it was good to see my hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar)—he is also my old personal friend—make such an impassioned speech. He has only just arrived in the House, but to say that he has found his feet would be the understatement of the century.
Hon. Members here represent some fantastic cultural institutions in the midlands. I want to tell the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) how much I have enjoyed my visits to Dudley zoo, which has two of the finest tigers that I, or indeed my children, have met. The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) has the Curve. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) has been instrumental in trying to save the collection at the Wedgwood museum, and hopefully the potteries are now thriving even more. Of course, in Birmingham we have the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, the symphony hall, the largest library in Europe and the Birmingham museum and art gallery. All hon. Members made valuable contributions that emphasized the thriving nature of culture in the midlands, but there was also an element of nostalgia for Pebble Mill studios that points us in our future direction.
The right hon. Member for Leicester East, the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee, made a specific point about the BBC Asian Network. The minute he brought that up, I looked into it, and my understanding is that one programme from the BBC Asian Network is moving to London, but the network will remain split between Leicester and London.
Robert Flello
I thank the Minister for his kind words about Wedgwood and the other magnificent potteries in Stoke-on-Trent and north Staffordshire. He mentioned Pebble Mill and much has been said about the Mailbox, but Members who have been called down to the Mailbox in recent years to take part in the “Sunday Politics” show will have seen a dramatic reduction in its facilities. Indeed, the programme is now pre-recorded on a Friday to make savings, though there is no saving in terms of battling Birmingham’s traffic on a Friday compared with a Sunday. The dumbing down, if I can use that phrase, that we have seen at the Mailbox is quite shocking.
Mr Vaizey
The hon. Gentleman is not mincing his words.
I must mention contributions from my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), the hon. Members for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) and for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham), and my hon. Friends the Members for Redditch (Karen Lumley) and for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen), who has been so helpful to the BBC in the past 12 months. They, and all the other Members I have mentioned, have all made incredibly valuable points and pointed to their constituents’ concerns.
We can play fast and loose in politics, but I would not dream, for example, of taking the comments from the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South out of context by saying that the Labour party was advocating a licence fee of £12.50, because that is not what he meant. He was simply trying to compare the contribution of people living in the midlands with what they receive back.
Mr Vaizey
I will not take the hon. Gentleman’s intervention yet; I will make a bit of progress and then see if I have time for more interventions.
However, I will make a point that I think plays to the concerns that have been set out in Westminster Hall this afternoon. First, the BBC has a strong regional presence in many other parts of the country. If people go to Glasgow, they will see a fantastic BBC presence; in Belfast, of course; in Cardiff, where the BBC now films “Dr Who”; we know about the move to Salford and we can say whether or not that is a good or bad thing, but it has happened, although I hear the point about the BBC making a real move rather than simply a commuting move; in London; and of course in Bristol, which is the centre of the BBC’s wildlife programming.
Has Birmingham missed out? The BBC would say that it is doing what it can. For example, it points to the fact that it is making the Mailbox, which was referred to earlier by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston as the base for the BBC academy, the diversity unit and internal communications. The BBC is also increasing jobs there; I understand that investment will go up from £80 million this year to £89 million next year, and up to £125 million the year after. There is also a training remit, with the establishment of the drama village in Selly Oak and the digital innovation unit, too. Of course, there is drama itself, such as the highly successful “Peaky Blinders”, and the BBC has just finished filming Lenny Henry’s semi-autobiographical drama, “Danny and the Human Zoo”, which may indeed take place in my much-loved Dudley zoo.
However, the point that I think is being made here today is about much more than those things. Obviously, we should welcome what the BBC is doing to invest in Birmingham and the east and west midlands, but what I think hon. Members are calling for is much greater cultural representation, if I can put it in those terms.
Shooters Hill Mobile Phone Mast (Stoke-on-Trent)
Debate between Robert Flello and Lord Vaizey of Didcot
The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Mr Edward Vaizey)
It is a great honour to speak in this debate under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to reply to the excellent speech from the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello). In my speaking notes, he is described as “my noble Friend”, so my Department clearly takes a different view, and I bow to their respectful description of him.
It is interesting to hear the issues the hon. Gentleman has raised, and I have no doubt, given the cogent way he put his argument, that the mast is a source of enormous aggravation and annoyance to his constituents in and around Shooter’s Hill. It was painful to hear about the 30 years of hurt, although I am pleased to learn that they have never stopped dreaming of a solution, so let us see if we can make some progress.
The roll-out of mobile phone infrastructure is a vexed question. Those of us who use mobile phones—that pretty much encompasses most of the population of this country—get very frustrated when we cannot get a mobile phone signal, but it depends, of course, on a mobile phone mast and mobile phone cells.
Robert Flello
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way and I appreciate that, having given him a lot of time to reply, I am now taking some of it back. I absolutely agree with what he has just said, which is why the residents were prepared to be extremely reasonable, despite the 30 years of hurt, as he describes it, and wait until such time as EE was able to make sure that people did not lose signal.
Mr Vaizey
I would not want my general remarks about mobile phone companies to be in any way construed as criticism of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. That certainly was not my intention. I was simply setting the scene.
We have recently reached a groundbreaking deal with the mobile operators that will increase mobile phone coverage to 90% of the geographical area of the country, in contrast to the current measure, which uses the coverage of premises in the UK. At the moment, the target is 98% of premises, but geographical coverage is much wider. In some instances, the benefits that the siting of a mobile phone mast can bring in terms of coverage can be outweighed by the loss of visual amenity caused by the mast. Despite years of deployment, their design has not moved on to one that could be described as aesthetically pleasing. Shooter’s Hill appears to be an egregious example of this, and it is important that local communities should have a say in where mobile phone masts are placed.
The Shooter’s Hill mast is owned by the mobile operator EE, which, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned, has gone through a number of iterations. EE is the result of the merger of Orange and T-Mobile, which explains why the mast was previously operated by Orange. It is no longer broadcasting a mobile signal in the local area. However, that does not mean that the mast is redundant equipment, and it cannot be removed immediately. It continues to be part of EE’s wider network operations. Three other masts in the vicinity rely on the Shooter’s Hill mast for point-to-point wireless backhaul. That involves taking data back to the centre to ensure that people get good connectivity. For as long as the mast is providing this backhaul function, it is entitled to remain in situ. I will explain more about that in a moment.
The immediate removal of the mast would address residents’ concerns about its impact on the visual amenity, but it would lead to a loss of coverage for a much larger proportion of the local community because of the backhaul function that I have described. There is light at the end of the tunnel, however. EE’s future investment programme will enable the mast to be removed. EE plans to upgrade the hardware on the three sites that are dependent on the mast. I hope that this is not going to be like the other promises that have been made to the hon. Gentleman and his constituents; I hope that this one will not be broken. Following the upgrade, EE will be able to remove the Shooter’s Hill mast. The company’s intention is to remove the mast no later than September 2016, which is some 18 months from the date of this debate. I appreciate that residents would like to see it happen more quickly, but I understand that the necessary upgrades on the other sites are significant and will take time.
If the Shooter’s Hill mast had been redundant, there would have been two ways to secure its removal. There are provisions covering this in part 24 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995. Communications providers are required to remove infrastructure that is no longer needed, and to restore the land to its former condition or a condition acceptable to the local planning authority. Failure to comply with a part 24 condition would be a breach of planning control and in those circumstances the local planning authority in Stoke could have invoked part 24 and forced the removal of the mast. Where the equipment is installed on private land, the electronic communications code also provides for landowners to serve notices on communications providers requesting a mast’s removal.
To a certain extent, we have made a bit of progress in this debate.
Robert Flello
I sense that the Minister is coming to a conclusion. I am grateful to hear what he says, because at no point has EE mentioned to us that it has these plans for September 2016. We could have saved ourselves an interesting afternoon, although it is always a pleasure to have such debates. It is a shame that EE did not tell us that, because all it has told residents is that it has no plans to remove the mast. That is welcome news, but, as the Minister said a moment or two ago, let us hope that this is a reality and not yet another myth.
Mr Vaizey
I was going to say to the hon. Gentleman that I texted the chief executive of EE this afternoon. I have not received a reply, but I said that I was replying to this debate and was rather surprised that I had not been contacted by EE about it, although clearly my officials have spoken to the company.
I shall take up the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion of a meeting. We have only a few working days left, but that need not delay us in seeking a solution. When I hear back from the chief executive, I will see whether I can arrange for a senior representative of EE to consider the matter in some detail. Given the number of masts that a mobile operator operates, one would not expect the chief executive or his senior management team necessarily to have detailed knowledge at their fingertips of a particular infrastructure issue, but I shall ask them to consider it and send a senior representative to meet the hon. Gentleman. I will meet him as well if time can be found in both of our diaries. We are, I think, a week away from Dissolution, but I am sure that we can find a 10 or 15-minute slot in which finally to nail down this important issue.
Question put and agreed to.