Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill

Debate between Robert Buckland and Robert Jenrick

Committee of the whole House
Tuesday 16th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Robert Buckland]

My hon. Friend puts the point very well. There is a landing space for this policy. I disagree with Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition and their leader when he said that he would not support the Rwanda policy even if it worked. Frankly, that is an extreme position and not one that chimes at all with what the British people want, because they want solutions to these problems. This party and this Government are coming up with solutions. They might be novel or untested, but at least we are working on it.

[Robert Jenrick]

My right hon. and learned Friend is generous in giving way. With all his experience as former Justice Secretary, is it his view that the Ministry of Justice will be able to recruit hundreds of tribunal judges—from where, I do not know—and use them to process and decide the claims that will surely come from each and every illegal migrant who comes across the channel, in sufficient speed that we do not fill up our detained estate capacity and have to bail those individuals, so that they abscond, even in the peak season of August and September? His professional opinion would be much appreciated.

[Sir Robert Buckland]

I will give, if not a professional opinion, my right hon. Friend an opinion born out of experience. Anything is possible, but it is quite a task. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor will talk to the Senior President of Tribunals, Sir Keith Lindblom, about this very issue, to make sure that not just full-time but part-time tribunal chairs will be available to deal with a large number of cases. But if we can do that in immigration, can we not do it in crime as well, please? It is a timely reminder that our justice system is pretty important and, despite my best efforts to increase funding—which we did do—more needs to be done to ensure that the backlogs are dealt with. I declare my interest, and I know that my colleagues at the Bar would tell me off if I did not say that. To answer my right hon. Friend’s point, it will be a challenge and will require probably some changes to practice directions, and cases will have to be dealt with much more quickly than the status quo.

[Sir Robert Buckland]

I am inclined to be kind to my hon. Friend. It is probably not an either/or, but an and. He and the Government will want to achieve not only a further spur in dealing with current cases in the system, but any particular influx we might get because of novel points that will need to be tested. I am satisfied, having looked at the terms of the clauses currently drafted, that it is narrow. If not quite the eye of a needle, it will certainly be a pretty restrictive process. I remember feeling deep frustration at the time of covid in not seeing backlogs in the immigration tribunal come down, despite the fact that people were not coming into the country.

[Robert Jenrick]

My right hon. and learned Friend may not be aware that after has left office the current waiting time for an appeal before an immigration tribunal is 48 weeks. Given the thousands of cases we successfully cleared in the backlog—many of which, thankfully, have been rejected—that backlog is probably likely to double in the coming weeks. Currently, immigration tribunals will be taking between one and two years to hear a case.

[Sir Robert Buckland]

My right hon. Friend is right. He is building on the frustration that I had. That is not a criticism of Ministers. The way in which the Home Office was working did not seem to allow the expedition that was needed. I know that he and others have done a lot of work to improve that—by scaling up the number of officials dealing with cases and creating a sense of urgency with a wartime emergency approach that is entirely right—but I can tell him that back in 2020 I was deeply frustrated not to see a decrease in the backlogs, bearing in mind that in other areas we were actually making a difference and taking at least some benefit from the awful covid crisis. The challenge facing my hon. and learned Friend the Minister is significant and we should not pretend otherwise.

Illegal Migration Bill

Debate between Robert Buckland and Robert Jenrick

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 11th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

I understand the hon. and learned Lady’s point. I say two things in response. First, the premise of asylum claims being handled in safe third countries is that those countries must be safe. Through our partnership with the Government of Rwanda, we have done work to ensure that appropriate safeguards are put in place. That has been tested by the courts, and remains an ongoing matter for the courts. Secondly, we placed a safeguard in the scheme: a person can claim that their removal to that country would put them at real risk of serious and irreversible harm, which includes persecution. I completely understand why the hon. and learned Lady says what she does, and the legitimate concern that she voices, but I do not think that the instance that she raises is founded in reality. If it were, we would take that very seriously indeed, because the Government do not want to do anything to compromise the safety and security of LGBT people.

In response to Lords amendments 73 and 74 about the power to amend the meaning of “serious and irreversible harm”, we have sought to provide further assurance by bringing forward an amendment in lieu to ensure that the power cannot be used to remove the provisions in clause 38(4) that set out what constitutes serious and irreversible harm.

Lords amendments 8 and 9 undermine a key plank of the Bill, which is the provision under which asylum and relevant human rights claims can be declared inadmissible. Lords amendment 8 would incentivise people smugglers to prioritise unaccompanied children, which would put more young lives at risk and split more families. Amendment 9 would simply afford illegal entrants yet another opportunity of playing the system and dragging things out as long as possible, in the hope that they would become eligible for asylum.

Lords amendment 50 seeks to limit the Secretary of State’s power to transfer a child out of local authority accommodation and into accommodation provided or arranged by the Secretary of State, by providing that the Secretary of State may do so only where that is necessary to safeguard and promote the welfare of the child. Again, the amendment is unnecessary and duplicates existing law. Under section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009, the Home Secretary is already required to have regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of the child when making a decision to exercise the “vice versa” power.

Moving on to safe and legal routes, Lords amendment 102 relates to clause 59, which requires the Home Secretary, within six months of Royal Assent, to prepare and publish a report on the safe and legal routes by which persons may enter the UK, including any proposed additional safe and legal routes. Lords amendment 102 would in effect mandate that such additional safe and legal routes be brought into being within two months of the publication of the clause 59 report. Again, the amendment is unnecessary. As I set out on Report in April, we will implement any proposed new routes as soon as practicable, and in any event by the end of 2024.

[Sir Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

I have listened very carefully to everything that the Minister has said on this subject, and I know that he is sincere in his intentions. We agree on the need for a quota when it comes to safe and legal routes, but will he accept that 18 months hence is an inordinately long time, bearing in mind that the Bill will have come into force? While we might not be able to have complete synchronicity of new routes with the coming into force of this important Bill, can we at least have a much greater sense of urgency, and bring forward proposals for safe and legal routes much sooner than the end of next year?

[Robert Jenrick]

My right hon. and learned Friend and I share a concern on this issue. We want to bring forward any new routes as soon as is practical; he has my assurance, and that of the Government, that we will move as quickly as we can. I do not think it is practicable for new routes to be brought into being within two months of the publication of the report provided for in clause 59. It inevitably takes time to work with partners such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees on developing a credible scheme, and to implement it. It is important that we give the Home Office the necessary time. However, I have been very clear that we will move as quickly as possible. [Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) says that we have had 13 years; more humanitarian visas were issued last year by this Conservative Government than probably any Government since the second world war. Since 2015, under a majority Conservative Government, 550,000 people have entered the UK on humanitarian grounds. That compares extremely favourably with the record of the Government of which she was a member.

Sanctions

Debate between Robert Buckland and Robert Jenrick

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The virtue of speaking late in the debate is that I can keep my remarks mercifully short.

I would like to associate myself with the many excellent and eloquent speeches we have heard, most of which I agree with almost entirely. Today is a sad day—a sad day most of all for the brave people of Ukraine, whose sovereignty is threatened and whose democracy and freedom are undermined. It is a sad day for the order we have known since the 1990s, which many right hon. and hon. Members have spoken of, which now seems shattered, damaged and diminished. It is also a sad day for the people of Russia. I am pleased to associate myself with the remarks of the many right hon. and hon. Members across the House who have said that we wish no ill on them and that we are sad to see the state of their country now. Twenty years ago, I lived and worked in Russia as a lawyer. Back then, Russia was by no means a democracy of the kind that we would recognise, but it was a more hopeful place than the Russia that we see today. It was a country in which one could do business and travel and in which young people were broadly optimistic about the future. After listening to President Putin’s remarks last night, I think we see a very different country, drifting darkly into authoritarianism.

I want to speak about two points and to reiterate those that Members across the House have made. The first is about understanding exactly what the Government’s strategy is today. The Prime Minister spoke of a ratchet. If we are going to take action, we should take action hard now. That is what a dictator such as Putin can understand. Deterrence by way of sanctions thus far has failed. It is probably likely to fail. It does have value, however: it shows resolve and inflicts cost on Russia. If we are going to do that, why would we not do it strongly now?

I do not understand why we would suggest that we will introduce the other measures that the Government are considering only in the event that Russia makes further incursions into Ukraine or makes further serious, egregious assaults on Ukraine or other allies in the region—[Interruption.] My right hon. Friend the Minister shakes his head. If, as I understand it, the Government will introduce those measures in the hours and days to come, perhaps because they require further thought or legislation or because we want to act in concert with our allies—for example, to make sure that the sanctions are synced exactly with those that the United States might bring forward—that is an entirely sensible and defensible policy.

[Sir Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

I am listening with great care to my right hon. Friend’s important contribution. Does he agree that we could go even further and, with international action, impose positive obligations on Russia to withdraw from the regions in question, stating that, otherwise, further sanctions would follow? Would that not seize back the initiative in a positive way rather than passively waiting for things to happen?

[Robert Jenrick]

My right hon. and learned Friend’s point has a lot to commend it. I suggest to the Government that they introduce further measures as quickly as possible, preferably in concert with our allies.