Automated External Defibrillators: Public Access

Rob Roberts Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Ind)]

Thank you, Mr Hollobone, for calling me to speak and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on securing this debate on such an important matter; as he says, it is a matter of life and death. I have no doubt that this issue will draw agreement from all political parties, and such is the nature of the hon. Gentleman that he is one of the few Members who could rightly be called “my hon. Friend” by Members from all parties in the House.

It is vital that there is greater access to defibrillators in local communities across the whole of the UK. To save myself tripping over the word “defibrillators” for the next five minutes, I will shorten it to “defibs” from this point onwards.

Every year in Wales, around 6,000 people suffer from cardiac arrest. About half of those incidents occur outside hospitals, with just one in 20 of the people affected surviving. The National Institute for Health Research has found that survival outcomes for people experiencing out-of-hospital cardiac arrest are greatly improved when bystanders use a defib.

When we consider that, as the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) said in an intervention, someone’s chance of surviving cardiac arrest decreases by at least 10% to 15% with every passing minute, it is vital that everyone in the community not only knows where the nearest defib is located but—most crucially—has the knowledge and confidence to use it.

I understand how important it is to improve the teaching of these lifesaving skills having campaigned with the family and friends of Janene Maguire, a loving mother of three who unexpectedly passed away of a cardiac arrest in February 2000. Sadly, and almost amazingly, nearly two decades later one of Janene’s daughters also suffered from a sudden cardiac arrest. Fortunately, she was with her friend, who saved her life by performing CPR until a paramedic arrived.

The experience of that family in my constituency highlighted to me the importance of improving awareness and knowledge of both CPR and defibs. I am pleased to say that, as a result of our campaigning, the Welsh Government committed to including these lifesaving skills in the school curriculum in Wales, as they are in the curriculum in England. I hope that equipping young people with the knowledge to save lives will ensure that the survival rate for out-of-hospital cardiac arrests is greatly improved.

Despite the success of having added to the curriculum in Wales, the campaign to improve lifesaving skills and access to lifesaving equipment is far from over. Access to defibs and the knowledge of how to use them still needs to be greatly improved. As part of my commitment to improving these skills, I will continue to work with the Welsh charity Calon Hearts to organise a number of CPR events in my constituency in the new year. Participants will be able to learn the skills and gain the confidence to apply them, ensuring that people from all backgrounds have that knowledge, so that they too are able to save lives.

Although the Resuscitation Council has provided guidance for adult basic life support, which advises on how CPR and defibrillation should be administered during a sudden cardiac arrest, the vast majority of people still do not have that knowledge and are unable to use it when needed. Currently there are 5,423 public access defibs registered with the Welsh ambulance service, but the British Heart Foundation estimates that there are thousands more defibs that the trust has no record of. With that in mind, there is an obvious but important question to ask: what is the point of increasing the number of public access defibs if people do not know where they are or how to use them?

There seems to be a simple solution to the issue. Why not create a comprehensive, UK-wide database, on an app that can be downloaded to smartphones, including all defibs and their precise locations, and simple, easy-to-follow instructions on how to use them? It seems as though that would be a relatively simple database to establish and maintain. It should not be beyond the wit of man to put something in place along those lines. There are currently a number of different defib databases covering different areas of the UK, so it is certainly a feasible idea. Much of the data is already there, and just needs to be amalgamated in one comprehensive database. If all NHS systems in the UK worked together with organisations such as The Circuit, the national defibrillator network, it could easily be achieved, and would undoubtedly help to save many more lives.

The Welsh Government, to their credit, have recently committed £500,000 to improve community access to defibs. I encourage them to collaborate with the UK Government, and indeed the Scottish and Northern Irish devolved Administrations, to ensure that public access to defibs and the knowledge of how to use them is improved across the UK, and that it is mandatory for all defib providers to register every new device on the database.

When someone goes into cardiac arrest, every second counts. I want to ensure that as many tragic and unnecessary deaths can be avoided as possible, by equipping the general public with as much knowledge and as many skills as possible.

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[Maria Caulfield]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That gives people added reassurance that they can do no harm, because the machine is totally in control.

We are also using technology, and there are some exciting apps—the hon. Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts) talked about having apps. Some mobile technology works with the NHS to help people play a role in becoming first responders. If people know how to do CPR—the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) seems to be trained up in that—I encourage them to use the GoodSAM app, which allows members of the public who can do CPR and feel confident about using a defibrillator to receive alerts. If someone collapses in the local area, they will get an alert on their phone, which will tell them where the nearest defibrillator and the person who needs help are. It integrates with ambulance dispatch systems and has a crowd-sourced map of defibrillators, including those in vehicles. The platform now has more than 19,000 volunteers and partnerships with 80 organisations, including the NHS and ambulance trusts.

We are also reassured that the British Heart Foundation is developing an app. It will link to The Circuit and show people where their nearest defibrillator is. Technology is being used to help communities to help themselves.

[Rob Roberts]

On a different but related subject, in this place and in the main Chamber, the Pensions Minister, our hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), has talked about how he is working with the BBC and other broadcasters to do some kind of nationwide campaign to raise awareness of pension credit. Is that something the Department of Health and Social Care could work on for this subject?

[Maria Caulfield]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. Some of the developments have been over the past two years and, during covid, they have not necessarily had the publicity they deserve. We all have a role in promoting initiatives. There is work to be done so that people are aware of the apps and initiatives.

In our communities, defibrillators are available at airports, shopping centres, train stations and community centres. School-age children are at low risk, but it can still happen, as I said earlier. As a result, and thanks to the work of the Oliver King Foundation, huge pressure was placed on the Department for Education, so defibs are now available for schools and other education providers across the UK to purchase through the NHS supply chain. They can get those important pieces of equipment at reduced cost. As of January this year, more than 5,000 defibs had been purchased through the defibrillators for schools programme, so we are getting defibs out into our schools.

Since May 2019, the Government have required all new and refurbished schools in Department for Education school building programmes to have at least one defib in their buildings. We are pushing that out for new and refurbished schools, but that does not cover all schools in the network.